Lamp Oil vs Kerosene

cabo_sailor · 30-01-2009, 15:05

I've got a couple of very nice oil lamps that were just overhauled and refinished. The fellow that did the refinishing suggested that I use kerosene rather than the commercial lamp oil. Ordinarily I'd take it as presented but this rather elderly gentleman also told me that one of my lamps had not been made in 80 years. Not true - still for sale today. In other words, he is not an oil lamp expert but an expert on refinishing brass. (Fantastic job).

I thus appeal to the forum for some input. He thought the kerosene burned brighter and with less heat than lamp oil. What are your opinions?

Rich

GreatKetch · 30-01-2009, 16:51

Brighter and less heat? I'd be surprised... but if we are talking about simple wick lamps, many fluids will burn well.

I have used oderless paint thinner in my lamps for years. In my neck of the woods, it is easy to get and cheaper than either kerosene or (especially) lamp oil. And it has (to me) a less objectionable smell.

Never use a material like gasoline... KABOOM!

MarkJ · 30-01-2009, 17:24

We used lamp oil in the Med while at sea for a while and it worked very well.
I wouldn't use kero for the smell! LOL

The soft yellow light is wonderful

If something is called "lamp oil" its probably made for lamps to be better than something not made for lamps. Maybe thats a bit too simplistic... but I would go the lamp oil and give it a try

Mark

svHyLyte · 30-01-2009, 18:08

Lamp Oil is a highly refined and purified kero commonly know as liquid parafin. Hollowick has been the standard in Liquid Parafin since the early 1970's with little smoke or smell as the material burns. When we were youmger we would routinely add a little paint thinner to kero to improve the performance of our navigation lamps although they seemed to burn quite a bit hotter.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte

cabo_sailor · 30-01-2009, 18:03

Good point Mark,

At this moment I'm using the small lamp with lamp oil. Basically, it's a candle flame. There would be no way to use it for reading. It's a night light. Yet,.... and this is the part that makes me wonder what, if anything, I'm doing wrong. Folks in the past had this as their primary source of light. The lamp I'm burning now is identical to those in the pix from the Roth's books. My other lamp is called a trawler lamp and certainly puts out more light, and heat. I guess I'm expecting too much.

Thanks for the reply,
Rich

Captain Jaz · 30-01-2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

Good point Mark,

At this moment I'm using the small lamp with lamp oil. Basically, it's a candle flame. There would be no way to use it for reading. It's a night light. Yet,.... and this is the part that makes me wonder what, if anything, I'm doing wrong. Folks in the past had this as their primary source of light. The lamp I'm burning now is identical to those in the pix from the Roth's books. My other lamp is called a trawler lamp and certainly puts out more light, and heat. I guess I'm expecting too much.

Thanks for the reply,
Rich

I can read fine by candle light, but I agree that most people seem to have trouble with it, I would guess that its what we're used to with our modern lifestyles... And as I often prefer to settle down to a good book by candle light, I'm guess that my eyes have accustomed to it over the years...

Useful thread thanks guys, I never had problems with the smell from Kerosene lamps before, but then I haven't used them in the confined space of a 27' boat before... think I shall go for the lamp-oil option....

Cheers.

**Pblais** · 30-01-2009, 20:40

Quote:

Lamp Oil is a highly refined and purified kero commonly know as liquid parafin.

It's clean and does not smoke or smell. I just took down all the oil lamps in the boat for winter service., I know the oil lamp had not been used in years but lit up on the first attempt. Oil is less volatile as well as clean. We use them in the house as well. There may be a lot of places to shave a penny but lamp oil isn't that expensive.

GordMay · 31-01-2009, 04:44

Methanol or Methyl Hydrate (CH3OH), also known as Carbinol, Methylated Spirit, Methyl Alcohol, Wood Alcohol, Wood Spirits and (wood) Naptha, is available in your local hardware store; and is used as gas-line antifreeze, as a solvent for shellac & etc., and as a fuel for camp stoves & lamps.
A methanol flame is almost colourless in bright sunlight conditions, and burns well in an un-pressurized burner.
Methanol is poisonous - When ingested, even in quantities as small as 10 milliliter (two tea-spoonsful), Methanol can cause permanent blindness, and 100 milliliter may be fatal.

GreatKetch · 31-01-2009, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Methanol or Methyl Hydrate (CH3OH), also known as Carbinol, Methylated Spirit, Methyl Alcohol, Wood Alcohol, Wood Spirits and (wood) Naptha, is available in your local hardware store; and is used as gas-line antifreeze, as a solvent for shellac & etc., and as a fuel for camp stoves & lamps.
A methanol flame is almost colourless in bright sunlight conditions, and burns well in an un-pressurized burner.
Methanol is poisonous - When ingested, even in quantities as small as 10 milliliter (two tea-spoonsful), Methanol can cause permanent blindness, and 100 milliliter may be fatal.

NO NO NO NO!!!!!

DO NOT USE METHANOL IN A WICKED LAMP!!!!! It WILL EXPLODE! Only use it in a lamp specifically desigend for alcohol!!!!

Gord, this is crazy! What ARE you thinking?????? Please only post something you actually understand and know something about!!!!

GordMay · 31-01-2009, 12:19

GK: Re-reading what I wrote, I'm thinking I see nothing I would retract without contrary illumination.
Please elaborate on your objection(s).

sabray · 31-01-2009, 13:09

Nothing to retract Gord But as great ketch said DO NOT USE ALCOHOL BASED FUELS IN OIL LAMPS!!!!!

Robertcateran · 01-02-2009, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

GK: Re-reading what I wrote, I'm thinking I see nothing I would retract without contrary illumination.
Please elaborate on your objection(s).

I am not sure why metho was brought up. the previous post was about mineral spirits, not methylated spirits

GreatKetch · 01-02-2009, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

GK: Re-reading what I wrote, I'm thinking I see nothing I would retract without contrary illumination.
Please elaborate on your objection(s).

As odd as it may sound, lamp oil, kerosene and mineral spirits are not "flammable" liquids. In its most simple definition a flamamble liquid is volitile enough at room temperature to give off vapors which burn. Methanol, gasoline, acetone, and the like are "flammable". At room temperature they give off vapors which can burn and even explode.

On the other hand, diesel fuel, lamp oil, kerosene, even vegtable oil are all liquids which give off burnable vapors only at elevated temperatures. They are classified as "combustable" liquids.

A wick lamp burns because you put a match to the wick and heat the liquid right on the wick above its "flash point" and it gives off vapors which then burn giving the flame which is the object of the exercise. It is self limiting because only the liquid right at the surface of the wick gets hot enough to give off burnable vapors.

Filling a wick lamp with methanol (or gasoline for that matter!) there is no such limiting factor. The liquid in the tank is giving off burnable vapors. The entire lamp is nothing but a molotov cocktail.

There ARE lamps that are specifically made to burn alcohol and gasoline. Such lamps IMO have no place onboard a boat or in any confined space and they are NOT the subject of this thread.

I did ten years of industrial research on chemical and chemical process safety, I really do know of which I speak on this topic. If this "popular" version of the explaination is not sufficient I would be happy to discuss it in more detail and including lots of data and references.

Cutting and pasting internet factoids taken out of context makes you look smart, but in this case gives information that is extrememly dangerous to the unsuspecting person who thinks you know what you are talking about. Your post, intentionally or not, suggests that using methanol in regular lamps is a good idea. It is NOT. Nothing you copied into your post is inaccurate as a stane-alone fact but in the context of the thread it is very dangerous.

roverhi · 30-01-2009, 20:51

I've always used Paint thinner in my Kerosene stoves and lamps. That was using a kerosene stove and 3+ wall lamps with nary a problem in 4 years oif living aboard and cruising. Unfortunately, it didn't work for beans in the Trawler lamp I've got in my current boat. The lamp would send out so much soot, unless burned at a very low level, that it blackened the overhead in the main cabin in just a week of use. Switched to lamp oil and the lamp burns fine now. Unfortunately, I've got scrub the overhead to get the soot off which isn't an easy job. Maybe the mineral spirits will clean up the gunk better than 409.

Aloha
Peter O.
Pearson 35 #108

Chrisc · 30-01-2009, 22:45

Interesting - I have a couple of kerosine lamps on board. For us down under, what do you mean by paint thinner, would that be turpentine?

30-01-2009, 17:24	#3
MarkJ Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Asia - on Sea Life Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life" Posts: 3,035	We used lamp oil in the Med while at sea for a while and it worked very well. I wouldn't use kero for the smell! LOL The soft yellow light is wonderful If something is called "lamp oil" its probably made for lamps to be better than something not made for lamps. Maybe thats a bit too simplistic... but I would go the lamp oil and give it a try Mark __________________ Malaysia... near Singapore If you are going up G.O.A 2010 PM me. OurLifeAtSea.com

30-01-2009, 18:08	#4
svHyLyte Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tampa Bay area, USA Boat: Beneteau First 42 Posts: 996	Lamp Oil is a highly refined and purified kero commonly know as liquid parafin. Hollowick has been the standard in Liquid Parafin since the early 1970's with little smoke or smell as the material burns. When we were youmger we would routinely add a little paint thinner to kero to improve the performance of our navigation lamps although they seemed to burn quite a bit hotter. FWIW... s/v HyLyte __________________ "It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."

31-01-2009, 04:44	#8
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,582	Methanol or Methyl Hydrate (CH3OH), also known as Carbinol, Methylated Spirit, Methyl Alcohol, Wood Alcohol, Wood Spirits and (wood) Naptha, is available in your local hardware store; and is used as gas-line antifreeze, as a solvent for shellac & etc., and as a fuel for camp stoves & lamps. A methanol flame is almost colourless in bright sunlight conditions, and burns well in an un-pressurized burner. Methanol is poisonous - When ingested, even in quantities as small as 10 milliliter (two tea-spoonsful), Methanol can cause permanent blindness, and 100 milliliter may be fatal. __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?" Last edited by GordMay; 31-01-2009 at 04:49.

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30-01-2009, 15:05	#1
cabo_sailor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Florida Boat: Cabo Rico 38 Posts: 283	Lamp Oil vs Kerosene I've got a couple of very nice oil lamps that were just overhauled and refinished. The fellow that did the refinishing suggested that I use kerosene rather than the commercial lamp oil. Ordinarily I'd take it as presented but this rather elderly gentleman also told me that one of my lamps had not been made in 80 years. Not true - still for sale today. In other words, he is not an oil lamp expert but an expert on refinishing brass. (Fantastic job). I thus appeal to the forum for some input. He thought the kerosene burned brighter and with less heat than lamp oil. What are your opinions? Rich

30-01-2009, 16:51	#2
GreatKetch Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 419	Brighter and less heat? I'd be surprised... but if we are talking about simple wick lamps, many fluids will burn well. I have used oderless paint thinner in my lamps for years. In my neck of the woods, it is easy to get and cheaper than either kerosene or (especially) lamp oil. And it has (to me) a less objectionable smell. Never use a material like gasoline... KABOOM!

30-01-2009, 18:03	#5
cabo_sailor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Florida Boat: Cabo Rico 38 Posts: 283	Good point Mark, At this moment I'm using the small lamp with lamp oil. Basically, it's a candle flame. There would be no way to use it for reading. It's a night light. Yet,.... and this is the part that makes me wonder what, if anything, I'm doing wrong. Folks in the past had this as their primary source of light. The lamp I'm burning now is identical to those in the pix from the Roth's books. My other lamp is called a trawler lamp and certainly puts out more light, and heat. I guess I'm expecting too much. Thanks for the reply, Rich

31-01-2009, 12:19	#10
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,582	GK: Re-reading what I wrote, I'm thinking I see nothing I would retract without contrary illumination. Please elaborate on your objection(s). __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

31-01-2009, 13:09	#11
sabray Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Boat: corsair f-27, PETERSON 44 Posts: 223	Nothing to retract Gord But as great ketch said DO NOT USE ALCOHOL BASED FUELS IN OIL LAMPS!!!!!

30-01-2009, 20:51	#14
roverhi Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kona, Hawaii Boat: Pearson 35 #108 Posts: 742	I've always used Paint thinner in my Kerosene stoves and lamps. That was using a kerosene stove and 3+ wall lamps with nary a problem in 4 years oif living aboard and cruising. Unfortunately, it didn't work for beans in the Trawler lamp I've got in my current boat. The lamp would send out so much soot, unless burned at a very low level, that it blackened the overhead in the main cabin in just a week of use. Switched to lamp oil and the lamp burns fine now. Unfortunately, I've got scrub the overhead to get the soot off which isn't an easy job. Maybe the mineral spirits will clean up the gunk better than 409. Aloha Peter O. Pearson 35 #108

30-01-2009, 22:45	#15
Chrisc Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Boat: Cav 39 yacht "Golden Girl" Posts: 85	Interesting - I have a couple of kerosine lamps on board. For us down under, what do you mean by paint thinner, would that be turpentine?