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Old 10-06-2012, 11:29   #16
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Re: Kerosene... fighting the good fight!

Duke... my kero stove is an old Force 10 but it is the same as their propane model but with different burners. If you could buy a set of kero burners and find a propane stove at a boater's flea market or used marine store, the conversion shouldn't be difficult. Just be sure there is clearance to accommodate the kero burners.

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Old 10-06-2012, 13:23   #17
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

The last time I looked, kersosene burners were NLA. Primus/Optimus quit making them some time ago and stock has been used up. There was a burner made in Portugal that was reputed to be better but they are also NLA. Haven't checked in a couple of years so someone may have put them back in production. I bought my Taylors 029 on Ebay. Really like the stove because it's a bit narrower and allowed me to modify my galley for more efficient use of space.

Taylor's still makes kerosene stoves but be prepared for sticker shock if you are going to buy new. St Brendan's Isle used to carry them and a full set of spares but they are only showing Lavac heads on their site now.

Kerosene is about the most efficient heating fuel there is and very easy to replenish. We took two 5 gallon gerry jugs as well as the 2 gallon pressure tank and it lasted us for more than a year of heavy use. We burned mineral spirits without a problem. Tried #1 diesel but it gummed up the burners destroying them. Never thought of Jet fuel. It's reputed to be kerosene but I'd be careful. If burners are NLA, it could be costly experiment.
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Old 10-06-2012, 16:20   #18
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

We beat the jet fuel issue to death some time ago on another thread. Bottom line: it works fine in pressure kerosene burners because it is almost pure kerosene. The additives are not rated to be any more toxic than the kerosene itself, and are used in small quantities, so shouldn't be a problem either. Still, I would consider that a second choice after pure kerosene.

Burning diesel in a burner will certainly foul it up with soot; so will poor quality kerosene. Always use kerosene that is as clear as water - anything with a yellow tinge should be avoided (experience was a great teacher on this one).

A fouled burner is not beyond repair. Basically, one has to dismantle it completely and then clean out the galleries with something that will remove the soot. There are lots of agents that can do this. I have used liquid oven cleaner from a jar (spraying it could be hazardous and lead to alkali burns), carburetor cleaner, and any number of other nasty cleaners. The next time I am going to try something called Deep Creep - because a friend gave me some. The trick is to use the cleaner with pipe cleaners to clean out the two pipes that lead up to the donut-shaped evaporation chamber (while the burner is upside down of course). Then fill the donut with cleaner and let it sit and do its job (the pipe cleaners can't reach inside the donut). Rinse and repeat as necessary. It isn't hard work, but it does require patience. I usually let a few burners pile up for servicing then do them all at once. Finally reaasemble, replacing any worn parts - it helps to stock up on the little bits like the graphite seals. Also the burner caps eventually corrode and need replacing.

The only times I have trashed a burner is when it has developed a leak (rare). This can happen where the hex base is brazed to the pipes. it is also possible to wear out the valve seat but I don't think I have ever done that. I have replaced a spindle or two due to wear against the valve seat however. The burners really do last a long time - you just need to rebuild them occasionally. I have lived aboard for 20 years with just the kerosene burners, so of course I have had to maintain them over time but it has not been an onerous task. A burner should be good for at least a year or two (or more) of heavy use between servicings - as long as the kerosene is quality.

Since Taylor is still manufacturing the stoves I would expect that the burners and parts are still available. I have ordered burners, and more importantly, parts from them in the past and have had excellent experiences.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:50   #19
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

A&HEnterprises has/had some new burners,but not cheap.marc
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:19   #20
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Just Thinking:
I have never seen the burner assembly for a kerosene stove. If I could find some, I wonder if I could replace the alcohol burners and controls on my present stove, keeping the tubing manifold and pressure tank. When I replaced the pressure tank, I could smell the residual kerosene in the tank when I overhauled it, so I'm sure that section would not be a problem.
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Old 11-06-2012, 16:00   #21
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

IIRC the alcohol burners don't look anything like the kerosene ones - alcohol vaporizes a lot easier. The threads on the base of the kerosene burners are quite fine, so I suspect the difficulty would be to make up a matching base. Also, there needs to be a small orifice in the base, or possibly at the tank, which suppresses surging pressure. These are normally screwed into the base assembly. Ideally, there should also be an inline filter between the tank and that orifice to prevent it plugging with any contaminants. I don't think a conversion would be a particularly difficult job - it would require a bit of thought and research though.

I would definitely get rid of the alcohol, mainly because it doesn't burn very hot so it is a pain for cooking. Although I am quite happy with the pressure kerosene burners, if I were slapping down the cash for a new stove I would probably be looking at the Wallas stoves. There are a fair number of older kerosene stoves coming on the market through time, and given the prices I think that one of these is a great solution. Watch Craigslist in Seattle and other sailing centers, or call around to used boat stores in the same places. I suspect you could pick up a good used stove for less than the cost of conversion.

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Old 11-06-2012, 16:50   #22
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Believe there were a number of different types of alcohol burners. Think there was one made by Optimus/Primus that was nearly identical to the kerosene burner. If you can get the kero burners for that type, could be a bolt in conversion.

One other type was a round cast ring that wouldn't be as easy to convert as you'd need to change the base.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:58   #23
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Think the difference between op/pri ROH & kero or the orifice.Ck with A&H Ent for more data.
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Old 07-07-2012, 14:45   #24
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Can the kero be filtered?

Are diesel stoves inherently dirty?
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Old 07-07-2012, 15:04   #25
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

I have been all primus since 1974. Much of it in the Caribbean . I use paint thinner / mineral spirit. I would not want kero enven if I could find it, it stinks the boat up even not burning. You can smell when a boat has kero in a gimballed oil lamp even, euch. I have not had the problem with burners burning up. For parts, I cruise swap meets and marine secondhand stores, old hardware stores. Buying a twenty dollar pos old stove for an authentic primus optimus burner is one of my great pleasures. The parts though, there is the problem.
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Old 07-07-2012, 20:15   #26
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Kerosene stoves give off some soot. After 3 years of liveaboard and cruising, noticed the cabin side and overheard around the immediate vicinity of the stove looked a little dingy. Got some Simple Green on a rag and cleaned up the accumulation in a couple of minutes. Not much maintenance for all the meals that had been cooked and coffee that had been made on the stove.

Diesel stoves also produce some soot but the vented kind send most of this up the flue. In any case, it's not enough to notice except over a very long period of time and pretty much stays in the local area. There can be a problem with diesel stoves very occasionally when there is a backdraft. Can send carbon bits all around the boat. In the case of the Dickenson type cabin heaters, that's easily prevented by installing a seperate pressure equallizing vent stack. Don't know if there are issues with the cook stoves but kind of doubt it as every fishing boat in Alaska used to sport a Dickenson stove.

I used mineral spirits in our stove without a problem with dirty fuel. Suspect that the yellow kerosene is just poorly refined fuel and no amount of straining will cure the problem.
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Old 07-07-2012, 20:54   #27
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Hi, does anyone actually know where you can buy the regulating burners for the Taylor kero stoves, online?
Links would be greatly appresciated.
Cheers from Keith.
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Old 08-07-2012, 16:18   #28
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

As I offered above, my experiences ordering from Blakes has been excellent. Since they still manufacture a range of paraffin (kerosene) stoves I would expect that they can provide the full range of spares. A quick search yields this site:

Home

If you drill down to one of the specific stoves, there are part numbers for burners plus parts kits for extended support. For any questions, and to order, go to the Contacts page and send them an email.

It is probably not possible to completely avoid odor from any petroleum-based fuel. However, once started, a burner in good condition and quality fuel should burn the vapor completely and not give off a smell at that time. Using dirty (yellow) fuel and sooted or uneven burners can make a smell as the combustion is incomplete. One source of odor is leaking of fuel at the gland on the control spindle or at the base, which will be readily vaporized into the cabin air. Also, attempting to turn the flame down too low will result in incomplete combustion. Use something between the burner and pot/pan to reduce the heat rather than attempting to turn it down too far. Starting up is when burners typically give off odor; this can be minimized by first ensuring the burner is well heated with either methanol or a propane torch before turning on the kerosene. One source of startup odor is a leaking valve seat - when turned off kerosene can pass in small quantities and then vaporize during the preheat process. Bottom line: a well-maintained stove shouldn't give off odor, except a little during startup. If not maintained and operated to a high standard, there are many ways to create a stink.

I buy de-odorized kerosene, and it does seem to cut down on the odor. IIRC the paraffin available in the UK and a few other spots is not as volatile, and thus doesn't give off vapor as easily. As for the oil lamps, I couldn't agree more. When not burning, the wicks continue to bring kerosene out of the tank and vaporize it, albeit at a slower rate than when burning. The smell only goes away when the tank is empty, which happens pretty quickly with idle lamps. I haven't used my three lamps in years - they look great, and provide great ambiance when lit, but not worth the stink.

Diesel stoves are always vented externally. As with kerosene, if the stove is running properly there will be no smell except at startup. Again, the solution is a good, long preheat with methanol before turning on the diesel, which should keep the smell/soot down. And again, don't try to operate at too low a heat.

Greg
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Old 08-07-2012, 16:33   #29
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Well this thread caused me to research 'diesel ovens' and i think we shall remove our electric hotplate and install a WALLUS hotplate and oven combo, expensive yes BUT one fuel ie diesel makes it attractive.

Economical, efficient and diesel is available everwhere.....


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Old 09-07-2012, 10:05   #30
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Re: Kerosene... Fighting the Good Fight!

Reading all these threads about various ovens and fuels, I'm of a mind to build an oven that can handle diesel, kero and alcohol, with simple exchanging of parts for whatever fuel was most available and suitable. Oh, and a solid fuel stove between galley & saloon, charcoal and/or wood, one, for the use of.
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