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Old 04-10-2012, 04:59   #46
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
Lemon juice, salt and vinegar present in mayonnaise acts as a natural preservative and will add life to the product if well cared for..
Mayo is an emulsion of egg yolk and oil with a few other things that help with the flavour and preserving.

While there are a few microbes that can slowly digest oil they are harmless to humans which is why there is no need refrigerate olive or cereal oils.

The egg yolk is great bug food but the lack of oxygen in the oil, its emulsification, and things like lemon juice and/or vinegar make it difficult for them to grow and disperse. Pasturisation of commercial mayo further reduces the presence and growth of microbes.

There is probably some effect from introducing microbes by disturbing it with a knife when serving, but I would expect it to be small unless the knife is very contaminated and you like to swirl it around in the jar.

Yes, there could be salmonella in the egg yolk but commercial products are pasturised and if done properly the potential is miniscule.

Finally, so what if there are some bugs in there. Most are harmless and some even contribute to the flavour .... where do you think yoghurt and cheese and saukrauts beer, wine etc etc get their flavour from.

Oh and BTW a lot of cruisers do have autoclaves aboard, they are called pressure cookers.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:36   #47
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

We seem to be overlooking the elephant in the room, the aging immune system and its compromised ability to fight off pathogens.

When I was 17 I was riding freight trains and traipsing around the country with my 3 month old puppy "Bear". In Phoenix I spent the last of my money on a pack of bologna, some mayo, and a loaf of bread. My puppy and and I ate it that day and again the next as we rode a train through the 120 degree heat of the desert towards Albequrque, NM. I spent the next three days vomiting (etc) on deaths door inside an unused caboose, barely able to summon strength enough to give my equally sick puppy some water.

To this day, The smell of bologna is enough to make me gag. Maybe it was the mayo maybe it was the bologna.

Considering that immune function can decline dramatically in older people I wonder whether its wise to take any unnecessary chances. I'm not sure I would have survived my experience if I were in my 60s or 70s.

Just sayin.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:34   #48
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
The best affordable instrument for sterilizing instruments remains an autoclave. About 25 psi at 270 degrees F for 30 minutes should be enough time between slices of bread. Mind you, it takes a cold autoclave about 20 minutes to reach that temp and pressure, so sterilizing several butter knives to use one after another should lower the overall time it takes to prepare lunch. Allow say an extra hour or so. Say, just how many sailboats have an autoclave anyway?

Not any would be my guess.

Wno has one in their home?

Point is, we aren't cleaning our silverware to the level of surgical and dental standards, and the truth is that even autoclaving doesn't always get all the microbes.

You ARE sticking a "dirty" utensil into the mayonnaise every time you use it -- even if you use only disposable plastics only once.

Mayo isn't the medium that grows the germs. You can leave it out.

My mayo lasts about 6 months before it's gone, including in the hot summer months (I rarely use the AC). I've eaten it and guests have eaten it, and no one has gotten sick.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:35   #49
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Look- this was almost 40 years ago and weeks after the incident I heard from the family I had gone up with that the state was concerned about the water we had had from the streams and that they had tested it with no negative results. They concluded that it was the mayo in some sandwiches we'd eaten that sickened us. Regardless of whether or not that was actually the case, I'm not gonna be eating any unrefrigerated mayo. If you want to- have at it.

That's what I'm getting at. We have been taught that if you get sick it was the mayo, so we believe it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:39   #50
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
If invited to go sailing and lunch, would you ask for mayo on a sandwich from an opened jar you knew to be old, half used and never refrigerated?

No prudent person would say yes to this.

Health food inspectors will never eat at food bars. Food exposed to time and elevated temps for even a few hours will make them turn away from something they certify is safe for everyone else to eat from.

I would say yes to it. Here's how I found out.

My mil was French. We were at her home one day and I saw her mayo in the cupboard instead of "where it belonged" -- in the refrigerator. I politely pointed this out to her as best I could, shaking in my shoes because she studied cooking at the Cordon Bleu in Paris for six weeks.

She drew herself up to her full 4'10" height and said --

"Don't you tell me about mayonnaise, young lady! I'm FRENCH! We INVENTED mayonnaise!" The top layer of her mayo was even slightly yellow from exposure to air.

And then I realized that not only her son and I had eaten that mayo, but so had my little children -- never getting sick.

It's probably one of the most stubborn urban myths out there.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:41   #51
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Myth busters is about like asking a 4 year old to build something. I watched a show or two, till the foolishness of their adventures pissed me off. One of their shows put a projectile through an apartment building occupied with people. Saw that on national news. The show is on par with shows looking for ghosts or pro wrestling. IMHO

It's fun, but it's not really scientific research. It's TV entertainment.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:44   #52
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
Well, Gary, I guess you aren't a scientist? As one, I DO enjoy their show. While at first they worked on entertainment, their followers have forced them into pretty decent scientific methodology. I can occasionally find holes in their methodology, but I'm very often surprised that they saw it as well, and addressed it.

In particular, their piece on "double-dipping" was very well done, very well researched, and very well presented. Maybe you need to look again.

BTW, in the show you are discussing, they were on a BOMBING RANGE, and a projectile hit a house - not an apartment. I can't imagine they were thrilled with this result, either. They are usually insanely careful.

Please, point out where they are not scientific in their process - like on par with professional wrestling, as you say.

I haven't seen the show in a long time. When it first came out, the science was ... thin. Not publishable. Perhaps they've improved.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:46   #53
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
A reasonable extension of this logic is to say that just because I have not been hit by falling space junk for 25 years it surely could happen and I should worry about it.

Yes, I know that the possibility of salmonella doing me in exists, but 25 years of unrefrigerated mayo experience leads me to relegate this threat to the not important bin.

So, in the event that you should ever be a guest on Insatiable II, you will have the choice of deadly mayo or dry sandwiches for your lunch... and no hard feelings from us.

Cheers,

Jim

The way to avoid salmonella with mayonnaise is to never mix anything into it that could grow salmonella in spite of the mayonnaise.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:47   #54
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by gettinthere View Post
Been using unrefrigerated mayo for several years now. The third eye that has grown on the back of my head has come in real handy.

I guess -- but two would be better! Better keep eating.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:49   #55
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
A reasonable extension of this logic is to say that just because I have not been hit by falling space junk for 25 years it surely could happen and I should worry about it.

Yes, I know that the possibility of salmonella doing me in exists, but 25 years of unrefrigerated mayo experience leads me to relegate this threat to the not important bin.

So, in the event that you should ever be a guest on Insatiable II, you will have the choice of deadly mayo or dry sandwiches for your lunch... and no hard feelings from us.

Cheers,

Jim

My boat too. The only reason I buy small jars is that they're easier to stow.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:51   #56
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Originally Posted by virginia boy View Post
We seem to be overlooking the elephant in the room, the aging immune system and its compromised ability to fight off pathogens.

When I was 17 I was riding freight trains and traipsing around the country with my 3 month old puppy "Bear". In Phoenix I spent the last of my money on a pack of bologna, some mayo, and a loaf of bread. My puppy and and I ate it that day and again the next as we rode a train through the 120 degree heat of the desert towards Albequrque, NM. I spent the next three days vomiting (etc) on deaths door inside an unused caboose, barely able to summon strength enough to give my equally sick puppy some water.

To this day, The smell of bologna is enough to make me gag. Maybe it was the mayo maybe it was the bologna.

Considering that immune function can decline dramatically in older people I wonder whether its wise to take any unnecessary chances. I'm not sure I would have survived my experience if I were in my 60s or 70s.

Just sayin.

I'm 66. Just sayin' -- and I did this through chemo treatment, which DID temporarily weaken my immune system.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:27   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I haven't seen the show in a long time. When it first came out, the science was ... thin. Not publishable. Perhaps they've improved.
Improved? Like the last year of Gilligan's Island improved? Lol
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:36   #58
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Re: Keeping mayonnaise with no refrig.

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Improved? Like the last year of Gilligan's Island improved? Lol

I dunno, Gary (ironic, your last name!) We have a bona fide scientist here saying that the show uses pretty good research methodology. I believe him. The show didn't start out that way IMO.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:39   #59
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Health depts allow bottles of ketchup, mustard and single use jelly and jam packets to sit on tables in diners.

In 55 years of eating out, the only mayo I have seen unrefrigerated in a food establishment is single use packets, and that only in the last few years.

I have ten bucks that says any diner with a bottle of mayo sitting out where a customer could use it, would get written up by the health dept.

Protected or not by other ingredients, a raw egg sitting out in a warm jar is a good idea? Prudent thinking would lead me to think of readily available alternatives.

Hey, it comes in variety pack flavors. Why not be safe and have variety?
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:41   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I dunno, Gary (ironic, your last name!) We have a bona fide scientist here saying that the show uses pretty good research methodology. I believe him. The show didn't start out that way IMO.
Who you going to believe? A scientist or a guy named Mayo? Lol
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