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Old 03-11-2012, 07:20   #106
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

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Originally Posted by thompsonisland View Post
The same is not necessarily true forchemical exposure, however. Bacteria is different; it depends on gut flora. Locals can sometimes drink water in places where nonlocals can't.

You're absolutely right about all of that. Small exposures of chemicals do not trigger an immune response.

You're right about the locals, too. I went on a cruise -- to Canada, mind you, certainly a first world country, when I was pregnant. My doctor told me under no circumstances to drink the local water! I was astounded but he said that our water has bugs in it we're used to. Their water has bugs in it that they're used to -- but I was not, and I was vulnerable since I was so pregnant.

Most of Mexico's water is "clean." But it has bugs in it we can't handle, so we get sick while they do not.

This is not the same as the blatantly unclean water so many millions of people on the planet have to drink.

But even our mountain streams are now contaminated with things like Giardia lamblia. My daughter went on a three week hiking/biking/kayak wilderness trip, a gift from her grandparents. They treated ALL water they gathered from streams.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:21   #107
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Re: If you don't drink the water?

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
You are over thinking this. If you aren't comfortable drinking municipal water, a watermaker is your answer. If you are still worried, get a UV filter system. No, it is not cheap but the most expensive thing at all times is being persnickety. The cheap option is to stop being picky and just fill the tanks w/ municipal water or rain water when available. If you are like my husband and being persnickety is just part of your DNA, you are just going to have to com to grips with the fact that you will have to pay for that quirk of your personality.

The other solution is to give up water all together and start drinking wine. It won't be any cheaper than a watermaker over time but after a few bottles you will start to care less.
LOL! Too funny Mimsy!

What is the difference between a watermaker and a desalinatior? Are they not both reverse osmosive units? Hope that isn't too dumb of a question.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:29   #108
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Re: If you don't drink the water?

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Originally Posted by Allan S View Post
LOL! Too funny Mimsy!

What is the difference between a watermaker and a desalinatior? Are they not both reverse osmosive units? Hope that isn't too dumb of a question.
Yes, it is all the same process -- force water across a semi-permeable membrane, against its natural osmotic direction, and you get something close to distilled water, with bacteria, viruses, other organisms, and most dissolved solids (like salt) and chemicals taken out.

Water from a watermaker is lovely, soft, and usually perfectly clean.

You could use a household low-pressure RO filter on your tank water, but these waste a large percentage of the water due to the low pressure. That's why we use Seagull filters on board, which achieve similar results but without waste.

If you add a UV filter to a Seagull, for extra protection in case of dodgy dockside water, then I think you will have pretty much foolproof water.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:44   #109
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Re: If you don't drink the water?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Yes, it is all the same process -- force water across a semi-permeable membrane, against its natural osmotic direction, and you get something close to distilled water, with bacteria, viruses, other organisms, and most dissolved solids (like salt) and chemicals taken out.

Water from a watermaker is lovely, soft, and usually perfectly clean.

You could use a household low-pressure RO filter on your tank water, but these waste a large percentage of the water due to the low pressure. That's why we use Seagull filters on board, which achieve similar results but without waste.

If you add a UV filter to a Seagull, for extra protection in case of dodgy dockside water, then I think you will have pretty much foolproof water.

If I had that on my boat I would drink that water.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:46   #110
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

And now for the low-tech solution:
I throw a capful of Chlorox in my tank every fill up. Any smell of the chlorox will dissipate after a day; never a problem. Younger wife only drinks bottled water ,but so far I'm outliving her.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:32   #111
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

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Originally Posted by thompsonisland View Post
My boat has Monel tanks and plastic lines. Fresh water comes on board via the marina garden hose.

I am not comfortable drinking water from most municipal supplies, or that has been through a hose. So, I need a plan. For now, I buy bottled water for the bost, or, if it's a short trip, bring well water from home in glass and steel.

There are counter top RO systems, but I don't know if they remove plasticizers and the water must be remineralized (I can get mineral additives or add a little sea salt or bone stock, maybe, and in few circumstances could maybe add sea water).

There are desalinatinators but they are expensive and I worry about seawater quality many places (Would use one in the Arctic, sure).

There are bottles but that's still plastic and waste, plus if it isn't a spring then it is RO(see above).

What do you do?


Here's the solution:

We, ALWAYS have good tasting and SAFE tank water.
DOCKSIDE: We use an RV or boat "potoble water" garden hose. (not any of the others, which all taste bad, and contain lead).

Before filling our boat's 3 polyethylene tanks, this water is run through a high quality but standard (under the sink) carbon block filter, which we attach to the far (boat) end of the garden hose. This removes 95+ % of the chemicals, including chlorine.

If it will be stored, and not consumed within a week, we then add chlorine to each tank. This way, it is fine, for 6 months or more!

Then, at the sink, we have a separate tap connected to a SeaGull filter. This removes bad taste, chemicals, that "added chlorine", and any bacteria that may have been collecting within our system during storage.

It now taste fine, but "flat" like distilled. For coffee & cooking we go with it, but for a good tasting glass of water, we add a few drops of "Roxtract" minerals. It is now FAR better than land based water supplies, and doesn't fill the world's landfills with even more unnecessary plastic bottles.

OUT CRUISING, IN CLEAR WATER: Our watermaker fills the tanks, (similar to the above), and we top them off daily, which covers us for a month, if the watermaker craps out.

ANCHORED OUT IN DIRTY HARBORS, WITH UNSAFE WATER ASHORE: This is where the watermaker should not be used, and land based tap supplies are unsafe. (WE STILL DO NOT BUY BOTTLED WATER)! In this case, we dink ashore with 2.5 gallon jugs, and fill them from a hose bib that is now connected to our portable "ceramic" Katadyne bacteriostatic water filter. This makes even "Montezuma's revenge" water, perfectly safe. REALLY!

In the worst case, where the water ashore is not potable, like the case above, AND the 3rd world water pressure is too low to use our very restrictive ceramic filter when filling our jugs, this is what we do... We fill the jugs ashore, unfiltered, dinghy it out to the boat, and pump it into the tanks but THROUGH that ceramic, bacteriostatic filter.

To accomplish this... We have our "spare" main water system pressure pump, with a strainer and small accumulator tank, attached to a 1' square plank of Starboard. This pressure pump has quick connect hose connections, so the filter connects to the "H2O out" side, and then leads into the tanks. The "in" side of the portable pump, has a short 3' hose, that we drop into the jugs that we just brought from shore. This little unit is powered by the boat, through a short #12 wire, with cigarette lighter plug on the end. It cycles on and off until the jug is transferred. Then, we switch tanks...

We rarely use this last resort, but it IS there when we need it, and I was planning to carry a spare ships pressure pump anyway.

For 15 years spent as a full time liveaboard, over the last 40, and often living anchored out in 3rd world countries, I have NEVER had to buy bottled water. Our water is SAFE, taste great, and we are "treading lightly on the planet" at the same time, by NOT buying bottled water. Even when living ashore, we use our own SS bottles, and fill them, "filtered", from a tap.

Bottled water is an unnecessary environmental disaster, on many levels. If you research why, you'll see what I mean.

Hope this helps,
M.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:41   #112
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

Awesome! I now have a full range of options to consider.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:10   #113
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

raku--if you think o f mexico water as being clean, you drink it--is dirty with oily substances and dirt particles as well as bacteria from feces. so-- have a great time drinking local mexican water.

i do not drink my tank water but i do boil it for food prep an d for coffee after i filter it many times --2 before it enters my tanks and one after--and that is for boiling.
usa has places wherein giardia is common in the tap water. one does not build up immunities to giardia. there are other random bacteria and fungi and viruses that folks with impaired immune systems CANNOT ingest that are contained in water in usa.
especially in cities.
to each his own. some folks do drink mexico water, but they have a tendency to need frequent trips to bathrooms. there are 2 kinds of purification here--"natural"--you do NOT want to drink that---is a trots kind of thing, and the kind done in a center--that is drinkable. found in 5 gallon bottles and only 25 pesos for a 5 gallon returnable bottle. one also does not want to drink ice here. is not purified water--lol
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:16   #114
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

I'm just wondering, what drinking water source IS safe in your opinion?
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:16   #115
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

When I was neutropenic inthe hospital (white blood count of 2.3, good times), the nurses told me that the the neutropenic patients couldn't have ice or hot water because our water was all bottled. Leaving aside the issues of bottled water, perhaps the hospital might consider filtration...?
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:23   #116
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

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I'm just wondering, what drinking water source IS safe in your opinion?
Really depends. A true spring is generally considered safe, but given the issues of persistent chemical contamination and naturally occuring things like arsenic, radon, etc (naturally occurring fluoride is calcium fluoride- " Texas teeth" versus sodium fluoride, which is what is used as an additive; I need the former and I seek it out in tea and bone stock and sardines), I think all water is potentially suspect. A home source can be analyzed, but when I'm on the road I like to filter. I trust that I can manage some toxin load; if the water tastes okay at someone's house I'll drink it while I'm there, unless I know I don't trust it. Then I bring my own.

I'm sure I get plenty of sodium fluoride from red wine...
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:30   #117
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

914--i fill tanks with filtered well, mexican water. i use for drinking, the 5 gallon bottles of water i buy from the purification facilities here, is delivered weekly for 24 pesos, with bottle, if you need to buy a bottle, water, then, is 20 pesos more, and bottle is yours. i keep 3 on hand in boat, including the one i use daily. works so far. there are some facilities in ensenada close to malecon--but delivery is important, or ye are dragging the bottles empty and filled, all over town....
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:34   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
raku--if you think o f mexico water as being clean, you drink it--is dirty with oily substances and dirt particles as well as bacteria from feces. so-- have a great time drinking local mexican water.
I do a lot of my research in Baja. As part of this, a couple years ago I was staying in a hotel in Los Cabos that had its own water desalinization system. And yet the hotel still supplied bottled water in the rooms. I asked the manager why they did this, and he responded, "For the Americans." Incredulous, I explained that the water from his desalinization system was probably more pure than the bottled water. "I know that, Professor," he replied, "but the Americans will not drink it."
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:46   #119
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Here's the solution:

We, ALWAYS have good tasting and SAFE tank water.
DOCKSIDE: We use an RV or boat "potoble water" garden hose. (not any of the others, which all taste bad, and contain lead).

Before filling our boat's 3 polyethylene tanks, this water is run through a high quality but standard (under the sink) carbon block filter, which we attach to the far (boat) end of the garden hose. This removes 95+ % of the chemicals, including chlorine.

If it will be stored, and not consumed within a week, we then add chlorine to each tank. This way, it is fine, for 6 months or more!

Then, at the sink, we have a separate tap connected to a SeaGull filter. This removes bad taste, chemicals, that "added chlorine", and any bacteria that may have been collecting within our system during storage.

It now taste fine, but "flat" like distilled. For coffee & cooking we go with it, but for a good tasting glass of water, we add a few drops of "Roxtract" minerals. It is now FAR better than land based water supplies, and doesn't fill the world's landfills with even more unnecessary plastic bottles.

OUT CRUISING, IN CLEAR WATER: Our watermaker fills the tanks, (similar to the above), and we top them off daily, which covers us for a month, if the watermaker craps out.

ANCHORED OUT IN DIRTY HARBORS, WITH UNSAFE WATER ASHORE: This is where the watermaker should not be used, and land based tap supplies are unsafe. (WE STILL DO NOT BUY BOTTLED WATER)! In this case, we dink ashore with 2.5 gallon jugs, and fill them from a hose bib that is now connected to our portable "ceramic" Katadyne bacteriostatic water filter. This makes even "Montezuma's revenge" water, perfectly safe. REALLY!

In the worst case, where the water ashore is not potable, like the case above, AND the 3rd world water pressure is too low to use our very restrictive ceramic filter when filling our jugs, this is what we do... We fill the jugs ashore, unfiltered, dinghy it out to the boat, and pump it into the tanks but THROUGH that ceramic, bacteriostatic filter.

To accomplish this... We have our "spare" main water system pressure pump, with a strainer and small accumulator tank, attached to a 1' square plank of Starboard. This pressure pump has quick connect hose connections, so the filter connects to the "H2O out" side, and then leads into the tanks. The "in" side of the portable pump, has a short 3' hose, that we drop into the jugs that we just brought from shore. This little unit is powered by the boat, through a short #12 wire, with cigarette lighter plug on the end. It cycles on and off until the jug is transferred. Then, we switch tanks...

We rarely use this last resort, but it IS there when we need it, and I was planning to carry a spare ships pressure pump anyway.

For 15 years spent as a full time liveaboard, over the last 40, and often living anchored out in 3rd world countries, I have NEVER had to buy bottled water. Our water is SAFE, taste great, and we are "treading lightly on the planet" at the same time, by NOT buying bottled water. Even when living ashore, we use our own SS bottles, and fill them, "filtered", from a tap.

Bottled water is an unnecessary environmental disaster, on many levels. If you research why, you'll see what I mean.

Hope this helps,
M.
The most elaborate water supply protocol I've ever seen!

Just one question - rather than all that humping of water jugs, double and triple filtering - why wouldn't you just motor out of the harbor and use your watermaker?

That's what we did in Mexico. I can't imagine going to all that trouble dealing with dirty water, if you have a watermaker.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:55   #120
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Re: If You Don't Drink the Water?

I was asking about what the OP thought was safe. We tried to drink the Ensenada water, too salty. It killed my water pump in a month, corrosion. We've been drinking bottled water delivered to the boat, it's good and even with the delivery premium it's 1/6th the price of bottled water, delivered, in Ca.
My watermaker installation should be complete today and then we'll motor out into the bay and make some water. I will try running the hose water through the watermaker first just to test things but there is WAY too much diesel in the water in this marina to chance my new $360.00 membranes in here.

I have friends from Costa Rica. When they travel to the US they can't drink the water. There is bacteria in their water that they're used to but they aren't used to the US bacteria, they get your typical Montezuma's Revenge type symptoms.

I smoke 5 cigars a day and eat like a glutton. Carcinogens in the water are way down the list of things that I need to worry about.
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