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Old 22-10-2014, 02:33   #46
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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Originally Posted by KISS View Post
@carstenb

As I said, I plan on having more than one burner - but instead of a multi-burner stove, I'll just use several single burner stoves rigged up separately. As for stuff falling out....don't see how that would happen unless the boat is upside down. Take another look at the video I posted, or the pictures from Atom that oldragbagger posted: where's the pot gonna go?
KISS- Obviously you can get it to work. I'm still confused though. By the time you build a couple of these and mount them in your baot, how many dollars/time will you have saved over buying and installing a factory bult marine stove (including oven)?

I'd venture to there is little to no savings. These units (from the videos) also take up at least as much space as a factory built unit.

Here's link to a UK company selling two burner gas hobs (these will be much cheaper in the US)

Plastimo Gulf 4500 - 2-Burner Gas Hob | Buy Now at gasproducts.co.uk

cost - 142

Here is a link to a standard gimbal/frame kit to mount the above gas hob

Standard Sea Rail & Gimble set to suit 4500 Cookers

cost- 50

Total 192 or roughly $275

As I said you can find these much cheaper if you look around.

Why all the hassle of bulding or designing? If you truly do not want an oven (and I recommend you have one - but that is your decision), then think about the fact that this unit is less than 6 inches high.

Ok you have to have a gas bottle somewhere, but if you use smaller ones, you won't need to have a very large gas locker.
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Old 22-10-2014, 02:41   #47
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

And if you are truly against gas as fuel, here's link to west marine, Alcohol two burner stove.

5 3/8 inches high, $360

MARINE AIR Origo 3000 Alcohol Stove | West Marine

Sometimes you just don't need to reinvent the wheel
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Old 22-10-2014, 05:34   #48
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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I'm comparing possible cookers, and I need a baseline for what a marine stove "should" do. So, if you please, tell us how long it takes you to a boil a given amount of water and what type of cooker you use.

Thanks
Far more important than "How long..." is "How..." ??? When I started offshore sailing there was that guy at the Camper & Nicholsons shipyard (UK) who had received his brand new C&N 31 at the same time as I got mine... After doing his first test sail around the isle of Wight with the shipyard people, he offered the Britts a cup of tea They had left the choppy Channel waters & were motoring upstream the Southampton river. Below deck, he boiled the water in an open saucepan & couldn't see nor ear the waves from a big tug boat way away... Sure enough, when the first big wave hit his sailboat, he received all the boiling water on his arm, got 3rd degree burns... He refused the help of a free crew at least to the Canary island (He had that single-handling thing in his brain)... A week after his departure from the shipyard, his sailboat was found half afloat, drifting at the Channel entrance with no sign of him anywhere... A closed kettle is a safety must & by the way... the water will boil much faster... Of course, you all knew that
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Old 22-10-2014, 06:47   #49
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

Judging by the very long list of his proposed ideas in his other thread about building the KISS boat, I am getting the feeling that KISS is as much, and possibly even more, about the designing and inventing aspect of it as he is about the minimalist sailing, or perhaps even the sailing at all.

As many have already suggested, there are time tested and proven products and solutions out there for his situation, which is a simple, safe, and reliable method to cook on a KISS boat while long distance cruising. And there is a plethora of excellent (and far more suitable) gear available, both new and especially used, for very reasonable prices, much of it for far less than what he will spend rigging up a less than ideal system that he will likely eventually end up chucking out for the real thing, or which he will stubbornly live with out of a sense of devotion to his creation even though it doesn't work as well. If it proves to be unsafe or unworkable underway he'll eat PB&J sandwiches and drink water. I've known others that have found themselves in this situation because they chose the wrong equipment. But that's what he wants to do and I suspect it's more about the inventiveness of it than it is about whether or not it will work well, which he is at a disadvantage to determine because he doesn't have the sailing experience and doesn't understand yet that what he envisions in his mind, which seems to be a very sharp mind and so his track record with success on terra firm is probably very good, will not necessarily be what he finds on the erratic and unpredictable moving platform he will encounter "out there".

KISS, I can't encourage you strongly enough, since you have the expertise of all these seasoned cruisers here at your disposal, to consider their advice. You will have a myriad of opportunities as you are designing and outfitting your boat to come up with unique ways to make it your own and to showcase what appears to be your strong engineering, designing, and creative abilities. I have seen so many clever and innovative solutions to storage, rigging, security and dozen other things. But where you don't want to shortchange yourself is in your ability to nourish yourself at sea. It's not that what you're proposing won't give you the ability to "boil water." But you can do it better, safer, and cheaper.
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Old 22-10-2014, 07:02   #50
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
Judging by the very long list of his proposed ideas in his other thread about building the KISS boat, I am getting the feeling that KISS is as much, and possibly even more, about the designing and inventing aspect of it as he is about the minimalist sailing, or perhaps even the sailing at all.

As many have already suggested, there are time tested and proven products and solutions out there for his situation, which is a simple, safe, and reliable method to cook on a KISS boat while long distance cruising. And there is a plethora of excellent (and far more suitable) gear available, both new and especially used, for very reasonable prices, much of it for far less than what he will spend rigging up a less than ideal system that he will likely eventually end up chucking out for the real thing, or which he will stubbornly live with out of a sense of devotion to his creation even though it doesn't work as well. If it proves to be unsafe or unworkable underway he'll eat PB&J sandwiches and drink water. I've known others that have found themselves in this situation because they chose the wrong equipment. But that's what he wants to do and I suspect it's more about the inventiveness of it than it is about whether or not it will work well, which he is at a disadvantage to determine because he doesn't have the sailing experience and doesn't understand yet that what he envisions in his mind, which seems to be a very sharp mind and so his track record with success on terra firm is probably very good, will not necessarily be what he finds on the erratic and unpredictable moving platform he will encounter "out there".

KISS, I can't encourage you strongly enough, since you have the expertise of all these seasoned cruisers here at your disposal, to consider their advice. You will have a myriad of opportunities as you are designing and outfitting your boat to come up with unique ways to make it your own and to showcase what appears to be your strong engineering, designing, and creative abilities. I have seen so many clever and innovative solutions to storage, rigging, security and dozen other things. But where you don't want to shortchange yourself is in your ability to nourish yourself at sea. It's not that what you're proposing won't give you the ability to "boil water." But you can do it better, safer, and cheaper.
So what you're saying is; he should try and "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Instead of breaking each component down and complicating it. Might not be bad advice.

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Old 22-10-2014, 07:24   #51
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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So what you're saying is; he should try and "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Instead of breaking each component down and complicating it. Might not be bad advice.

goat

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That about sums it up.
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Old 22-10-2014, 13:08   #52
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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KISS- Obviously you can get it to work. I'm still confused though. By the time you build a couple of these and mount them in your baot, how many dollars/time will you have saved over buying and installing a factory bult marine stove (including oven)?
If I go with the Dragonfly or something similar, that's about $150. I'd estimate the mount has less that $50 worth of parts in it. So let's call it $200 per unit, or $400 total if I do two units. Compared to commercial diesel stoves, that's a big savings.

Diesel Stoves

The cheapest one is $1500.

Quote:
These units (from the videos) also take up at least as much space as a factory built unit.
The largest part will be the potholder, whose size is determined by the largest pot I'll use - no way around that no matter what type of stove I go with.

Quote:
Here's link to a UK company selling two burner gas hobs (these will be much cheaper in the US)

Plastimo Gulf 4500 - 2-Burner Gas Hob | Buy Now at gasproducts.co.uk

cost - 142

Here is a link to a standard gimbal/frame kit to mount the above gas hob

Standard Sea Rail & Gimble set to suit 4500 Cookers

cost- 50

Total 192 or roughly $275

As I said you can find these much cheaper if you look around.

Why all the hassle of bulding or designing? If you truly do not want an oven (and I recommend you have one - but that is your decision), then think about the fact that this unit is less than 6 inches high.

Ok you have to have a gas bottle somewhere, but if you use smaller ones, you won't need to have a very large gas locker.
Something like that would be fine, except that I really want diesel, not propane.
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Old 23-10-2014, 06:04   #53
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

If you are looking at camping stoves. Not looking at the jet boil is foolish. I've used both and feel the jet boil is significantly faster.


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Old 23-10-2014, 06:47   #54
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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Originally Posted by KISS View Post
If I go with the Dragonfly or something similar, that's about $150. I'd estimate the mount has less that $50 worth of parts in it. So let's call it $200 per unit, or $400 total if I do two units. Compared to commercial diesel stoves, that's a big savings.

Diesel Stoves

The cheapest one is $1500.

The largest part will be the potholder, whose size is determined by the largest pot I'll use - no way around that no matter what type of stove I go with.

Something like that would be fine, except that I really want diesel, not propane.
Well, good luck on filling that small reservoir when in heavy seas
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Old 23-10-2014, 20:31   #55
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Re: How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

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If you can find a stove/oven which has reliable thermocouples, but isn't "marine" or stainless. I'd say go ahead and snag it, along with a set or two of a few key parts.

PS: If anyone does happen to know of some brands of stoves & ovens which have thermocouples, but which don't come with the "marine" price tag. Please be kind enough to post your findings.
As while my boat came with a Force 10, 3 burner with over, it still seems loco to me to have such items costing well in excess of $1k. And it'd be nice to know of other proven options. (I know... get off my heine & go look/do some digging).
Nearly any gas stove/oven will have thermocouples. Perhaps a camping (Like a Coleman) stove does not. Any unit made for use indoors (residential, commercial, marine, RV etc) will have a thermocouple. One on each burner, including the burner in the oven.

I am not sure what you mean by a 'reliable thermocouple' as any thermocouple that fails will fail in such a manner as to cut off the flow of gas, even if it is burning/hot. It cannot fail in a manner that will allow gas to flow when it is not hot/burning.

If you cannot keep a burner lit, one of the first steps is to try remove the thermocouple and very lightly sand it around its circumference. Often a layer of carbon (soot) will build up, thereby insulating it from the heat an not allowing the gas to flow.

I would highly discourage anyone from using any propane device any where indoors without a thermocouple desinged in.
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