How Long Does It Take You To Boil Water?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by KISS

I'm comparing possible cookers, and I need a baseline for what a marine stove "should" do. So, if you please, tell us how long it takes you to a boil a given amount of water and what type of cooker you use.

Thanks

How much water? In what sort of container? Starting at what base temperature?

Seriously, I have a Force 10 propane range and propane burns hotter than my natural gas range at home. We had to learn to keep the flame lower.

I don't think anything will beat propane but if it's a race, be sure to get the higher BTU burners.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hello, KISS,

Now that I have an idea of the context of the question, I ran the experiment this morning, but I used an 8 oz cup of water, at 76 deg. F., present bilge temp.

The kettle is dome shaped ($20.00 from a used boat bits place), s/s, no lid, just a filling/pouring spout, and the bottom is a sandwiched with the filling a thick alloy plate.

Fuel is propane, stove is a 4 burner 23 y. o. Mariner with broiler and oven that came with the boat, and is "tired" now from so much cooking. I used one of the better burners.

8 oz. water, measured, and it took 2 min 10 sec. to whistling, and i think I lot of that time was in warming up the bottom of the kettle. Sorry, should have done it with a liter. FWIW, I think the usual coffee/tea water runs between 3-5 min., depending on how warm or cool the tank water is and what the ambient temp. is. That would be boiling a little over a liter (about 1-1/2 qt.).

Hope this helps. There sure are a lot of variables.

Thanks for taking the time to do that, you've gone above and beyond!

And that is definitely helpful. 8oz = ~.24 liters. So if we extrapolate, your cooker would have taken ~8 minutes this morning to boil a liter. But, as you said, a large part of that was probably just heating up the pot, which would be the same regardless of the amount of water in the pot. So you're 3-5 for a literish amount sounds on the money.

My desired cooker is supposed to take 3.5 minute to boil a liter (in a little metal army type cup which probably takes less time to heat up than a nice thick-bottom pot), so it looks like it's well within the normal range.

[MBWhite]

Originally Posted by KISS

<SNIP>

My only remaining concern was about actual heat output (hence this thread). The specific stove I had in mind (MSR Dragonfly) is supposed to heat a liter of water in 3.5 minutes, which seems pretty good to me (a lot faster than my electric range at home), but I thought I'd ask just in case there's some uniquely nautical factor that I'm missing. Someone in another thread pooh-poohed the Dragonfly, implying it would be inadequate to the job (I'd be very hungry...etc etc) and I couldn't see why. Figured it must be about heat output...

But now, from what people have posted in this thread so far, it sounds like 3.5M/L is quite good.

If you are looking at non-marine stoves, IMHO the Optimus 111T (tri-fuel) is a much better choice. It is built much more durably and is more stable for cooking on. I've had both stoves (except my 111 only burned gasoline) and for backpacking purposes the Dragonfly is lighter but on a boat I'd rather have the extra steel. Also, I never ever had an issue with the Optimus mechanically and used it a lot but the MSR fuel pumps have a reputation for failures (though I never had an issue with mine either, but it also has a lot of plastic in it). Do a search for "MSR fuel pump failures" and you'll find a bit of info.

Also, since you are taking this approach you may as well build a couple of the pop can alky burner stoves. For heating up a pint of water those things are great and you can build one in a few minutes. One of those with a small built in gimball mount that would snugly hold a 1 pint steel mug would be just the thing for heating up a mug of coffee, tea, or soup in tough weather.

[KISS]

Thanks MB, I'll look into it. I'm not married to the Dragonfly, just the type it represents.

From a brief look at the optimus so far...I like the built-in tank. That would make building a gimballed mount much easier methinks.

P.S. More on the Optimus: has the exact same boiling time for 1L water (3.5 minutes), and consumes about 1/2 as much fuel. Looking good.

[Snore]

It sounds like you are looking for the fastest way to boil 1 liter.

If that is the case look at the Jet Boil systems. The ones designed to boil water are super efficient and compact.

[oldragbaggers]

Boiling water is all well and good, but unless you're planning to live on tea/coffee, freeze dried food and ramen noodles, at some point you're going to want to cook a meal. If you're talking a 40ish' boat space will not be a concern so why not have a real stove? It doesn't have to be any more complex than a camp stove, but for the $139 you will pay for a little one burner you could find a proper 2 burner stove on eBay and give yourself a few more options. With a lightweight little thing like the Dragonfly, even if you can figure out how to gimbal it, it is going to be very unstable with a pot, even just with water, on top of it.

Have you ever seen a gimbaled stove in motion underway? If you're set on a one burner, with a little looking you could probably find yourself an old Sea Swing and at least have a proper seagoing gimbaled one burner stove.

As a matter of fact I saw the frame (no burner) for a Sea Swing at Bacon Sails in Annapolis last weekend. I wonder if there would be a way to pair something like the Dragonfly with a Sea Swing, put some weight on the bottom and, hmmmm...... now you've got me thinking (usually dangerous)

[KISS]

[QUOTE=oldragbaggers;1659285]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

With a lightweight little thing like the Dragonfly, even if you can figure out how to gimbal it, it is going to be very unstable with a pot, even just with water, on top of it.

The pot and the burner will never come into contact.

Take a look at this.

Improved DIY gimbal stove for our sailboat - YouTube

That would be the basic design - with the bottom modified to fit whatever burner I end up using.

Looks pretty simple to me.

I don't see what a traditional marine ($$$) cooker gives me that this wouldn't - other than an oven, but I don't need an oven.

[MBWhite]

Kiss, you'll need an oven you just don't know it yet.

Look up an "Omnia oven" or "Wonderpot oven". During the early years of Israel, many many Jewish families survived on Wonderpot baked meals. They work a lot better than Coleman ovens BTW.

Also, another single burner multifuel stove is the Coleman 550B. Never hadd the multifuel one but the coleman fuel ones are pretty indestructable.

One skill you can start developing right now is cooking and baking. Amazing how simple bread is to bake yet not many people bake their own bread any more, and there are a lot of other foods like that too. If you don't go overboard it is cheaper too but not as much as you would think, but it could get you started in saving up for your boat...

[KISS]

Originally Posted by MBWhite

Kiss, you'll need an oven you just don't know it yet.

Look up an "Omnia oven" or "Wonderpot oven". During the early years of Israel, many many Jewish families survived on Wonderpot baked meals. They work a lot better than Coleman ovens BTW.

I'll have one of those: along with a pressure cooker and any other stove-top wundergadgets. I meant I didn't need a real oven - as in, box with its own heat source.

Also, another single burner multifuel stove is the Coleman 550B. Never hadd the multifuel one but the coleman fuel ones are pretty indestructable.

noted

One skill you can start developing right now is cooking and baking. Amazing how simple bread is to bake yet not many people bake their own bread any more, and there are a lot of other foods like that too. If you don't go overboard it is cheaper too but not as much as you would think, but it could get you started in saving up for your boat...

Fortunately, I'm already an avid cook. Do it often and really enjoy it - and am rather good at it if I may toot my own horn... Baking, not so much. That'd be something to work on.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by KISS

BTU ratings aren't very reliable, since they're often based on fuel consumed, not actual heat output. That is, they're measuring the BTUs which you would get if the burner were 100% efficient (which none of them are). That's why time to boil a given quantity of water is a better measure; it reflects actual heat output. Two cookers both rated at 8000btu can have very different actual heat outputs.

It doesn't just reflect the burner it also reflects the pans. Black transfers heat better than metallic, aluminum better than steel and larger surface areas than smaller areas.

If I were buying cookware currently I would get a set of flare pans from Lakeland and a pressure cooker from anybody. A wide mouth vacuum flask would also be really good way to conserve fuel.


Adelie

[oldragbaggers]

Neither a Wonderpot nor an Omni Oven are going to sit in that gimballed arrangement that KISS has pictured. He is going to be limited to very small pots, saucepan and kettle types, which I why I said a proper 2 burner stove will give so many more options, such as a skillet, a griddle, a large soup pot, a pressure cooker, a wok, and a camp oven. None of those cooking vessels will sit in a little gimballed swing like that. We had a Sea Swing on one of our boats, (fitted with a brass kerosene stove like pictured below) which we used for heating water, soup, stew and such underway, but that was about all it was good for. It certainly would not have been adequate for living full time and accommodating holidays, guests, and even frying an egg. This just seems like a very restrictive type arrangement and for benefits to $$$ doesn't seem practical. A plain old Coleman stove would give much more flexibility than that.



KISS, is your experience primarily with camping? If so, it's natural that you might try and take solutions that have worked well for you on the trail and make them work on the boat, but some things just don't translate well. Not to say it wouldn't work, if you want to live your whole life like you're trekking the Appalachian Trail, but why???

[carstenb]

[QUOTE=KISS;1659303]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

The pot and the burner will never come into contact.

Take a look at this.

That would be the basic design - with the bottom modified to fit whatever burner I end up using.

Looks pretty simple to me.

I don't see what a traditional marine ($$$) cooker gives me that this wouldn't - other than an oven, but I don't need an oven.

This will let you boil water and perhaps cook an egg. If you plan on more advanced coooking this will not do. You mentioned you are an avid amatuer cook - you should know 1 burner is simply not enough.

The other issue with this is holding the pot on the stove in rough weather. I know it is gimbaled - but if you in heavy or large waves - you need something to hold the pot on the stove.

KISS - sometimes the KISS philosophy is the wrong road. With millions of boats build and designed by real pros (designers, naval architects and sailors with a couple of million miles in their wake) virtually all have a "normal" gimbaled stove.

Why? Did they all miss the boat? I doubt it.

This is one of those areas where you really need to get on a boat and go sailing(especially in rough weather) You need to see what is happening to understand.


One other advantage you'll find to sailing with many others is that most experienced sailors have come up with very ingenious solutions for many simple (and complex) problems. I cheerfully steal any good idea I see. So should you.

[oldragbaggers]

If you're set on a single gimballed burner check out the Atom Stove. The gimballed pot holder is custom designed to accommodate larger pans, pressure cooker, and even a 10" skillet.

Atom Voyages - The Atom Kerosene Stove

[oldragbaggers]

If you're set on a single gimballed burner check out the Atom Stove. The gimballed pot holder is custom designed to accommodate larger pans, pressure cooker, and even a 10" skillet.

Atom Voyages - The Atom Kerosene Stove



See the lead weight at the bottom to counteract the weight of the skillet on top when the gimbals are unlocked?

[KISS]

@oldragbaggers

I posted that youtube video as an example of the design - not the size. I'll make the pot holder whatever size I need. I was actually thinking I'd make it adjustable.

@carstenb

As I said, I plan on having more than one burner - but instead of a multi-burner stove, I'll just use several single burner stoves rigged up separately. As for stuff falling out....don't see how that would happen unless the boat is upside down. Take another look at the video I posted, or the pictures from Atom that oldragbagger posted: where's the pot gonna go?