How do shared expenses work?

[joannerhoden]

Hi,

I as wondering if anyone has some tips and ideas about how shared expenses work onboard with 4 x people sharing.

Any ideas welcome. It is the first time that I will be crewing up my boat.

Thanks

Joanne

Facebook - Sailing Yolo

[tomdidit]

A little more information might get you some good answers. Crew for a race, crew for a month, crew for around the world?

As long as everyone is clear about the parameters and what is to be shared, and they agree with them, there should be no problems. However, you will have to jettison the first person that does not pull their share of the costs or it all goes to hell quickly.

If you are sharing all boat costs there must be a limit. The boat is your asset, not theirs. And, it is not an appreciation asset!

[CaptCanuck]

We each threw an equal amount in a kitty to cover cruising costs, moorings, marinas, common food items, fuel, etc. As an expense arose we pulled from the kitty until it was empty then everyone pitched in again. Eliminated guess work and awkward moments.

[Sailing Yolo]

Originally Posted by CaptCanuck

We each threw an equal amount in a kitty to cover cruising costs, moorings, marinas, common food items, fuel, etc. As an expense arose we pulled from the kitty until it was empty then everyone pitched in again. Eliminated guess work and awkward moments.

Thanks for the reply. How much did you put into the kitty each time and was it pre arranged that that was how you would do it. I was also more interested in the logistics such as, was alcohol included and what happened when someone wanted to eat steak every night as opposed to a simple meal. Or someone wants a cooked breakfast while an other just wants cereal.

[Time2Go]

I have done a fair amount of crewing, so will give some of my perspective
and experiences (leaving out the whole crew vs charter argument)

One method was a daily amount asked for by the skipper to cover all expenses
while aboard. The good here was that one could budget for the trip.
20 days x 40.00 = 800.00 for the trip. Easy and simple. The bad was once in port, most aboard wanted to eat off the boat and that greatly increased
expense. I was was on a boat in Europe where we had 2 younger folks
(Backpacker types) and they couldn't afford this and it led to some
arguments with the skipper.
Also with this method there could be some grumbling about the profit motive
when doing a longer run, Let's say there are 5 crew each contributing
40.00 per day but you're at sea for a week. That's 1400.00, way more then the cost of provisioning.

Another method was where the skipper paid all bills,kept a tally and then
every week the crew settled up. Takes a bit more trust that all aboard will
have the actual cash on hand.

In both cases, what where considered "expenses" should be spelled out in
a clear and concise way BEFOREHAND
Fuel, in or out
Food, in or out with some indication of diet
Marina fees, in or out
Alcohol, in or out (sometimes separate line item because some folks are dry)
Food on board while in marinas, in or out
These are just a few that come to mind

I was once considering joining a boat for the ARC and the
skipper sent me a 25 page crew agreement that got down to
the size drawer I would have to store my clothing.
The trip was cancelled due to a family illness of the skipper
but I was set to go because I was impressed by the thought
indicated by the thoroughness of the agreement.


There is no doubt in my mind that some skippers want and or need
the "crew" money to leave the dock and some are trying to make a profit.

The basic point is that all methods work, If and only if
everything is spelled out in advance and agreed to in advance.
Surprises don't work well for anybody.

In all cases boat maintenance was the responsibility of the owner.
Sure the crew washed down the boat and contributed labor to the daily
upkeep of the boat, But if a new battery was needed or the
motor needed an alternator replaced that was on the owner.

I mentioned in the beginning that I was not going to get into
the whole crew v charter thing, I will just say that I'm 100%
positive that some trips I've been on would have been considered
a charter if they took place in the US.
I'd check the laws in the countries you plan to be in
and also run it by your insurance provider.
You don't want to lose everything because of a broken finger
or a mishap at a marina where your carrier says
Hey buddy you're not covered while running
a commercial operation.

Cheers
Neil

[CaptCanuck]

We were on a bare boat charter for a week with another couple. We planned out meals in advance of getting provisions and exactly what would go into the kitty. If we ate off the boat you paid your own way. At the end we had some money left over and settled up with the couple. Made it very stress free for us, your mileage may vary. Always some surprises on board, my wife and I stopped by duty free on our way into country, never expecting to go through all the alcohol we brought on board. We accepted that it would be at our expense, a gift for the week if you will. Turns out the other husband liked his drink and would sit up at night and drink half a bottle. Never led to any problems and at the end the wife quietly talked to mine and reimbursed us for the liquor. It all works out with a bit of planning up front. Not knowing what your plans are my suggestion may not work but if you have more questions feel free to PM me.

[Stu Jackson]

Food is the largest issue by far, with good examples already given.

Here's another one: I sailed up from SF to Vancouver Island last summer (a month and a half) with my son. I could have eaten quite nicely on board every night, but he wanted to go out. The food bills were more than fuel and repairs (almost one) combined!!!

Be very careful and put it in writing.

Good luck.

PS You still haven't mentioned what type of cruise.

[elk]

Four years ago I bought a 2006 C350. I knew 3 other sailors that were Interested in sharing the boat. I estimated the total ownership cost the first year and we split it equally, ~$4K each, paid around November for the following year. That gave each person 1week per month for their use, more than we can use.

Big ticket items, like solar panels or a new main, we split it with a one time donation. The yearly cost has gone up to $4.5k going into our fifth year, but nobody has complained, we feel it's worth it.

I maintain most of the boat, what I can't or don't have time for we let the marina do at $110/hr. This year everybody pitched in to winterize the boat and do the chores needed for recommissioning over the winter.

We get together in March-April to pick weekends we want. It works, and there are still many idle days for the boat that we can use on a whim. We use Nautical Monkey to keep track of our dates.

I would say that so far the experiment is working.

If you want more details, I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Originally Posted by joannerhoden

Hi,

I as wondering if anyone has some tips and ideas about how shared expenses work onboard with 4 x people sharing.

Any ideas welcome. It is the first time that I will be crewing up my boat.

Thanks

Joanne

Facebook - Sailing Yolo

[Jack Lahr]

Risks are highest with strangers. Try to line up participants who are known to you, at least you have lsomewhat experienced sailors and work out a consensus plan ahead of time. Advance deposits to a kitty can work very well if there is agreement on what is included ( on-board operating expenses shared). Clarify shoreside expenses about restaurants , bar bills , entertainment .

[rognvald]

In my opinion, shared expenses=Disaster. . . only among very good friends with common values will it work. There's always a whiner in every party . . . and always someone who wants something for nothing. . . even though YOU own the boat. Good luck and safe sailing.

[meirriba]

It should be understood that the shared expenses are the running costs and anything related to capital costs should be covered by the owner.
However, if the trip is long it may be fair that the crew contributes something towards capital costs as well.
I participated in Atlantic crossing and each crew put down a sum for cover of expected tear & wear of the equipment.
If you worry about shared costs in a restaurant (someone choosing always the most expensive dishes) you may set limits. I was on a trip where the skipper consulted the menu and identified 2-3 main courses to chose from everytime we went together and any liquor was paid personally. On the other hand we have 2 couples who sail with us constantly and we feel like family - we pay all meals from the common kitty, even personal whims ( e.g. someone wants a drink or ice cream on a way back to the boat from a day trip and nobody else does - it will be paid out as common expense). It comes down to trust and long acquintance.

[desertsailor]

I do not own a boat, but have been on 3 separate trips lasting from 5 weeks to 3 days. Perhaps I have been lucky, but in each case the skipper stated that he would provide all provisioning. The crew only had to provide their transportation to and from the marina, plus their shore expenses (restaurant meals, etc). In some cases I volunteered a contribution to the provisions, or bought the skipper a meal, or two when we were dockside. Not sure if I would crew for a skipper that requested up front contributions for cost of fuel and marina expenses. Other factors would have to be considered, such as travel and destination, plus personal rapport with skipper and other crew members.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by joannerhoden

It is the first time that I will be crewing up my boat.

Joanne, are you asking about a cruise or about you owning the boat and having "partners?"

The more I read the answers, the more I see a possible discrepancy in the responses and their use to you.

My answer was for a cruise, others have been for sharing costs over long periods of time. I'd do a search on "boat partnerships" if so.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Joanne, are you asking about a cruise or about you owning the boat and having "partners?"

The more I read the answers, the more I see a possible discrepancy in the responses and their use to you.

My answer was for a cruise, others have been for sharing costs over long periods of time. I'd do a search on "boat partnerships" if so.

Yep, without knowing the OP's circumstances, all the various anecdotes above are a bit pointless.

[Sailing Yolo]

Hi,

Thank you to everyone for your responses. The information received was really informative and I have concluded that it is best to put up an equal amount of money each into a kitty and to replenish it when needed. To also be very clear about the costs that are to be shared.

Yolo is going to the Bahamas and Caribbean and will be looking for crew.

You can find us on Face book - Sailing Yolo or google - @sailonyolo

Thanks Joanne