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Old 14-03-2015, 13:53   #316
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NornaBiron View Post
Cinchona bark cut (100g): Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

This was the one I bought.

Yep, it might be an allergy I suppose.
That is the 'Joanna's Garden' one that was removed from sale from Amazon after my query. It is not just "unavailable", it no longer comes up in searches.
Your reaction may be coincidental, but it's odd.

I have just read that "the genus Cinchona contains about forty species of trees". The quinine level varies a lot between species. The one I used was Cinchona succirubra (from Penn Herb Co.), which is the highest one in the attached table (4-14%). The recipe used 29g so if every bit of quinine could be extracted, the amount derived would be 4g. This makes about 50 drinks, so 0.08g (80 mg) per drink.

Therapeutic doses are:
"542 mg base (650 mg sulfate salt) orally 3 times a day for 3 to 7 days" ie 1626mg per day.

So even if all the quinine could be extracted (very unlikely) and the batch contained the maximum level the species contains, you would need about 20 drinks per day to hit the therapeutic level. Of course you don't need to reach this level to exhibit side effects and cumulative effects do need to be taken into account.

Your reaction sounds allergic to me, but the whole issue of quinine that may be consumed is interesting. Taken home message for me is use cut bark not powder, filter it well (I will do so twice now) and don't overdose on the syrup. Or stick to martinis .

To put it in perspective, unless you have an allergic reaction I think the possible problems related to consuming the gin and all the corn syrup in commercial tonic may be on par with the risks consuming the tonic syrup, but that is just guesswork.

Here is a table I found listing quinine content for a few species of cinchona:
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Old 15-03-2015, 01:46   #317
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Talk:Quinine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...5152602AAvVT9s
List of Foods That Contain Quinine | LIVESTRONG.COM
How Safe Is Tonic Water? - The People's Pharmacy



QUOTE=Seaworthy Lass;1774700]

I have just read that "the genus Cinchona contains about forty species of trees". The quinine level varies a lot between species. The one I used was Cinchona succirubra (from Penn Herb Co.), which is the highest one in the attached table (4-14%). The recipe used 29g so if every bit of quinine could be extracted, the amount derived would be 4g. This makes about 50 drinks, so 0.08g (80 mg) per drink.

Therapeutic doses are:
"542 mg base (650 mg sulfate salt) orally 3 times a day for 3 to 7 days" ie 1626mg per day.

So even if all the quinine could be extracted (very unlikely) and the batch contained the maximum level the species contains, you would need about 20 drinks per day to hit the therapeutic level. Of course you don't need to reach this level to exhibit side effects and cumulative effects do need to be taken into account.

Your reaction sounds allergic to me, but the whole issue of quinine that may be consumed is interesting. Taken home message for me is use cut bark not powder, filter it well (I will do so twice now) and don't overdose on the syrup. Or stick to martinis .
:[/QUOTE]

Wow, 80mg per drink is a lot when you consider that that the average commercially prepared tonic contains 83mg per litre. Even if only half the quinine was extracted from the cinchona that would still give me double the dose of my Schweppes G&T.

That would explain why I can have two G&Ts if I use Schweppes and not even one from my homemade syrup!
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Old 15-03-2015, 02:00   #318
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post

Your reaction sounds allergic to me, but the whole issue of quinine that may be consumed is interesting.

To put it in perspective, unless you have an allergic reaction I think the possible problems related to consuming the gin and all the corn syrup in commercial tonic may be on par with the risks consuming the tonic syrup, but that is just guesswork.

:
I don't think my reaction was allergic, that would suggest that I couldn't even have the tiniest bit of tonic :-(

I suspect that I am one of those unfortunate people who is sensitive to tonic/quinine intake and therefore I need to be careful about how much of the stuff I drink.

The research this has generated has been very interesting and informative. I always knew that I couldn't drink G&Ts all night and now I know why!

At least I can still have the occasional tipple, even if it is with commercially prepared, sweeter tonic water.



Is Quinine in Tonic Water Safe? - The People's Pharmacy
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Old 15-03-2015, 02:51   #319
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Re: Gin Tankage?

This all looks pretty exiting and taste bud tempting.
But can you explain to me what you are adding to the actual mixed drink to get the volumes.
What I mean is you have gin ,your tonic syrup and ????????
Chris
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Old 15-03-2015, 03:19   #320
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Re: Gin Tankage?

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
This all looks pretty exiting and taste bud tempting.
But can you explain to me what you are adding to the actual mixed drink to get the volumes.
What I mean is you have gin ,your tonic syrup and ????????
Chris
carbonated soda water
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Old 15-03-2015, 06:05   #321
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
This all looks pretty exiting and taste bud tempting.
But can you explain to me what you are adding to the actual mixed drink to get the volumes.
What I mean is you have gin ,your tonic syrup and ????????
Chris
Commercial soda water can be used.
I have a SS soda syphon as in the Google image attached.

Unit dose cartridges (they make a litre at a time) are available cheaply in units of 360:
Creamsupplies - Mosa 8g Soda Chargers - Case of 360

A tip: Add the tonic syrup after the soda has been squirted in the glass, otherwise you get a foamy head of froth.

SWL
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Old 15-03-2015, 07:56   #322
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Commercial soda water can be used.
I have a SS soda syphon as in the Google image attached.

Unit dose cartridges (they make a litre at a time) are available cheaply in units of 360:
Creamsupplies - Mosa 8g Soda Chargers - Case of 360

A tip: Add the tonic syrup after the soda has been squirted in the glass, otherwise you get a foamy head of froth.

SWL
Now to choose a syphon . . .

This adds to confusion: The Best Soda Maker | The Sweethome

Do normal syphons really give flat product? Or is it just a matter of using a second cartridge?
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Old 15-03-2015, 09:41   #323
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Re: Gin Tankage?

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Now to choose a syphon . . .

This adds to confusion: The Best Soda Maker | The Sweethome

Do normal syphons really give flat product? Or is it just a matter of using a second cartridge?
Hi Dockhead
Yes, the ISI soda maker gives inferior bubbles (it does help if the water used is chilled and if the unit is shaken before use). I have tried the Sodastream back home and to me it is indiscernible from commercial soda water. I have not tried the Purefizz the article mentioned.

If the Sodastream and refills were available, that would definitely be my preference.

I will try out using two chargers in the ISI unit tomorrow. I have never been game to use this before.

SWL
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Old 15-03-2015, 09:53   #324
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Hi Dockhead
Yes, the ISI soda maker gives inferior bubbles (it does help if the water used is chilled and if the unit is shaken before use). I have tried the Sodastream back home and to me it is indiscernible from commercial soda water. I have not tried the Purefizz the article mentioned.

If the Sodastream and refills were available, that would definitely be my preference.

I will try out using two chargers in the ISI unit tomorrow. I have never been game to use this before.

SWL
Well, that road may lead back to Sodastream after all, then. I don't like flat tonic water, that's for sure.

I'll look forward to hearing the results of your experiment with two chargers.

Maybe it would help to reduce the volume of water?
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Old 15-03-2015, 10:02   #325
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Re: Gin Tankage?

My doctor recommended tonic water to prevent nightly leg cramps. It takes about 12 oz. to be effective. I can now drink it straight (no gin)! I would be interested in homemade if it is cheaper. What would it cost to make just the sinchona infusion?
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Old 15-03-2015, 10:18   #326
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Re: Gin Tankage?

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My doctor recommended tonic water to prevent nightly leg cramps. It takes about 12 oz. to be effective. I can now drink it straight (no gin)! I would be interested in homemade if it is cheaper. What would it cost to make just the sinchona infusion?
The cinchona bark wasn't expensive but I'd be wary about it. Have a look at the links posted in the previous comments before you decide to have a go. The side effects can be really quite unpleasant. Doctors are no longer permitted to prescribe quinine for leg cramps due to the side effects.
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Old 15-03-2015, 10:48   #327
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Wow, I even misspelled cinchona. I have read all of the posts and would like to try making my own. I will be careful. Not having to get up at night and walk out a painful cramp or soak my hands in really hot water to relieve a hand cramp is a real blessing. It took me several trials to determine the minimum dose to be effective.
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Old 15-03-2015, 11:22   #328
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Re: Gin Tankage?

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Originally Posted by Cowboy Sailer View Post
Wow, I even misspelled cinchona. I have read all of the posts and would like to try making my own. I will be careful. Not having to get up at night and walk out a painful cramp or soak my hands in really hot water to relieve a hand cramp is a real blessing. It took me several trials to determine the minimum dose to be effective.
Well, in that case, go, for it

Following SWL's method was very easy, I think the ingredients came to about 30 in total and there is enough to make several large batches of syrup.

I bought my cinchona, lavender and citric acid from Amazon UK. It should also be available in health food shops.

Good luck
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Old 15-03-2015, 20:55   #329
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Re: Gin Tankage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Sailer View Post
My doctor recommended tonic water to prevent nightly leg cramps. It takes about 12 oz. to be effective. I can now drink it straight (no gin)! I would be interested in homemade if it is cheaper. What would it cost to make just the sinchona infusion?
$1.75 per litre (1oz of bark makes 4 cups), which gives 50 drinks (20 ml is used per drink), so 3.5 cents per drink.
Penn Herb Company On-Line Herb Store -- Cinchona Bark

I would at least add some lemon rind and sugar syrup to make it palatable. Also citric acid improves taste and keeping ability (it is inexpensive and readily available in supermarkets).

SWL
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Old 15-03-2015, 23:16   #330
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Re: Gin Tankage?

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Has anyone done a cost per liter of tonic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I will keep track of cost and pop in a post when I am done .
As promised:

Cost of syrup (one batch makes 1 litre):

I have calculated this in . I have not added the cost of delivery, as many of you will probably be able to source everything without delivery (and if not, the cost will be very variable).

cup (1 ounce) cut cinchona bark, chopped finely = 28 g = 1.28
(35.90 1kg from Amazon free delivery in UK)
Cinchona bark cutted, Cinchonae cortex, 1000g: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home

cup citric acid = 56g = 0.22 (7.68 for 2kg)

Botanicals less than 0.25 total:
1 teaspoon dried lemongrass = less than 0.05 (8 500g )
4 allspice berries = less than 0.05 (2.03 100g)
3 cardamom pods = less than 0.05 (2.85 100g)
teaspoon lavender flowers = less than 0.10 (7.25 100g)

Citrus prices from Tesco:
1 lemon = 0.30
1 lime = 0.30

1 cup sugar = 0.16

TOTAL per litre (50 drinks)
2.51 = 5 pence per drink

Prices will vary a little between countries, but this converts roughly to:
US $3.70 = 7 cents per drink
Australia A$4.85 = 10 cents per drink


This is an absolute bargain compared to commercial artisanal tonic syrup, particularly in Australia where syrup is a whopping A$47-$120 per litre! Even in the US where most of this stuff is made commercially, it seems to be around $32-39 per litre.

SWL
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