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Old 08-07-2014, 08:34   #106
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Wow, that is a strange personal belief system - only cruise where waste disposal meets high industrialized standards and stay out of the "ruined dirt-world" with all the uncivilized poor people.

You are outta here because you couldn't answer a couple of really simple questions about trash removal and handling outside of NYC?

Mark
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No. To be frank, I am outta here because I see no point in debating the value of conservation with a dude from Connecticut who choses to export his toxic boat work to a third world country with weak environmental and worker protection to save a couple of bucks. Seems like a waste of time, no?
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Yes, you have wasted a lot of people's time.

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Delalncey,

Please, stop writing in this vein. This is one of the most toxic posts I've ever read. It is against CF rules to make ad hominem attacks. We all agree to "be nice." No special rules for one individual.

It is, perhaps, morally questionable to set yourself figuratively as judge and jury. Your method of argument does your actual argument no good whatsoever, IMO.

It's a shame, because you are turning people off where you might be consciousness raising.

Ann
Take a look Ann at how the thread ended up this way. I have experienced the baiting on a topic from Colmj before. It brings the worst out in people who post sometimes.
There are many ways to respond to a fellow CF's post. When someone baits another person, then zings them the results are inevitable.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:49   #107
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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..... When someone baits another person, then zings them the results are inevitable.
Only when a person fails to leave their 'toes outside the door'.

If you don't react to a personal slight.... The intelligent take note..... and the ignorant?..... Who cares! )
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Old 08-07-2014, 13:02   #108
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

What and spoil the fun???
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:20   #109
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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We currently cruise in restricted water (Great Lakes), so nothing except organics goes overboard. Offshore I would never consider tossing plastic, and while glass seems OK, it's not something I want on my boat anyway. Tossing tin or aluminum cans seems reasonable, but in an anaerobic environment, how quickly will it oxidize? Oxygen concentrations diminish in deep water. Will a can rust quickly if it sinks deeply? I honestly don't know. Perhaps one of you do. I do know this is why deep water wrecks are often the best preserved.

Crush it, bag it, and deal with it responsibly. Seems only reasonable.
Metal in the Great Lakes lasts nearly as long as plastic. 100 year old boiler discovered in Superior looked OK to light. Its permitted to send your grey water but when we do dishes, we wipe them clean first. (tongues invented for a reason as long as she isn't lookin'.
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:24   #110
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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I rigorously follow the written waste disposal plan aboard my boat. That plan states "all trash will be bagged and removed upon reaching land and will be transported to the home of Udo Nettner (the PO now deceased)." I trust that Udo doesn't mind as I have never received a complaint.
You must know then, where Udo is buried? Grave must look like a dump.
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:30   #111
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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Good one Ken! I agree with your earlier comments too in that the kids seem to be the ones littering now. Perhaps it's time to reinvent the "Don't be a litterbug" campaign.

I have a question which arose a few months back with the "taking babies to sea" hallaballoo. I know nothing about diapers, but I'm thinking those disposable ones would have a lot of plastic in them & not be biodegradable. And I doubt if a family cruising would be washing out cotton diapers, although perhaps they are. So, what do passage-making cruisers do with those dirty disposables? I have a feeling I don't want to know.
when cruising with infants, roll up the disposables & re-set the sticky tape. Use them with a funnelator to repel pirates. If boarded, you can flick'em like a wet towel.
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:41   #112
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Wow! ...as a bachelor..That is the best argument of being against cruising with kids I have ever heard.

Talk about becoming conditioned towards potty humor....

My hat is off to you guys....Give me a storm at sea ....Any day of the week.....instead
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:41   #113
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

I think in the very least everyone is in agreement that plastic should not be tossed in the ocean. If the greens want to get everyone to agree on cans and bottles they are going to have to do a lot more work.

A corona bottle tossed in the ocean may well require 100 years to break down but in the end, its not like its leaching chemicals into the water. Also true for cans without plastic liners.

Personally, I am much more concerned about the hundreds of millions of gallons of toxic liquids that end up in the water every year. Heck, we dump chemical weapons in the ocean. To me, this is much more concerning than the inner lining of a few thousand tin cans (plastic lining or not) tossed overboard in a year by circumnavigators.
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:53   #114
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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Metal in the Great Lakes lasts nearly as long as plastic. 100 year old boiler discovered in Superior looked OK to light. Its permitted to send your grey water but when we do dishes, we wipe them clean first. (tongues invented for a reason as long as she isn't lookin'.
True, which is why we don't toss anything non-organic. I guess that's why I have a hard time accepting that my ocean-going friends here can't do the same. But if you really are travelling in areas where trash will simply wash up in the mangroves, then I guess sinking is better ... I guess. As for the lick clean technique ... I sure do miss our dog for that. She was the perfect pre-washer.

Zboss, the problem with the argument that, my little bit is nothing compared to the other fellow's, is that it allows everyone to avoid taking any personal responsibility. There's always someone who's worse, and who overshadows my little contribution. All any of us can do is manage our own actions. I can't control what others do, but I can ensure I don't add to the problem.
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Old 08-07-2014, 19:55   #115
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

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I still want a $2.00 deposit on those disgusting plastic bags.
Those bags are the national flower of China! They sprout from the trees & bushes along every roadway.
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Old 12-07-2014, 17:11   #116
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

What to toss and what not to toss is a problem. But the fact is that if you carried out you can carry it back. Wash anything that has the potential to rot and smell and take it all to your next port. Organics too if you are coast hopping. In deep water most organics can safely go over the side in my opinion. By deep water I mean off of the continental shelf, rather than stipulating 12 miles offshore or similar.

Chucking stuff over in the deep ocean is a tricky one; as plenty of OP have said once on the bottom it won't rot (quickly) because it's cold and there is very little oxygen. However some oceanographer friends have said that in deep water there is every chance that a can won't reach the bottom anyway for many reasons, thermoclines, hydroclines, beasties growing on it etc..

Certainly things like bottles are probably best kept on board as you simply put them back where they came from when empty and they stop the other bottles from moving, zero hassle. Cans are rinsed and crushed etc..

Orange peels should never go over the side, they don't rot, in salt water, and end up washed up on somebodies beach; have a look at the flotsam on a beach and in among the flip flops, light bulbs, and tetrapaks you'll find citrus fruits and peel. Banana skins are the same except they break down until you can't see them anymore, but just like the plastics they are still in the water column.

Recycling facilities hardly exist outside of big cities in the 1st world. I have seen places where recycling bins are provided but it actually gets emptied into one truck and all goes in the landfill, or over a cliff. So in some areas it may be better to throw cans, steel ones, and bottles overboard.

Other than cans and bottles an offshore cruiser shouldn't have much trash anyway.

We can but do our best. I am sure that when deep see sight seeing tours become possible there will be plenty of trash making the view interesting!

This is similar to the problem of what mountaineers do with trash. In the good old days you chucked it in a crevasse, but then trash started to come out with the melt-water so now most, responsible, climbers carry their trash back out too.

Times change and we learn as we go, we just have to do our best given the current knowledge and best practice. Hence the changing MARPOL rules etc..
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Old 12-07-2014, 17:58   #117
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

I am reminded of "Million dollar beach" near Luganville in Vanuatu. This is a site where the departing American military dumped "millions of dollars" worth of equipment into the channel between Espirito Santo and Aore islands. An extreme example of littering the ocean floor... but now it is a favored dive site, one which brings considerable cash flow into an impoverished economy.

So, who knows the fate of dumping stuff into the sea? I doubt if many events will have favorable outcomes, so we should be mindful of our actions as yotties. However, it is hard to see much environmental damage from tins or bottles sent into abyssal depths.

It seems to be an emotional question these days and it is difficult to separate the emotion from the science... hence the wide divergence of opinion expressed above.

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Old 12-07-2014, 18:37   #118
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

It appears the Pardeys have done a 180. Sailing with Lin & Larry Pardey

It's easy to make generalizations based on generations. Still makes me think less of them for not having a clue back in the 70's.
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Old 12-07-2014, 19:15   #119
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

You can think less of them, but you would have to think less of a lot more folks back then as well. It was just the way it was then. I sailed on many boats during the 70's and they all bagged and sank. No holding tanks either, pump it straight out, even at anchor, in a bay, and nobody ever complained, or even thought of complaining, because they were doing exactly the same thing. Wasn't it just great to be able to enjoy yourselves back then?

You cannot apply retro retributions for doing what was the norm then because the rules have changed now.

Coops.
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Old 12-07-2014, 19:20   #120
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Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Banana peels? Seriously? Next you guys are gonna start saying I need to bag my farts.
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