Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2014, 05:14   #31
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
We currently cruise in restricted water (Great Lakes), so nothing except organics goes overboard. Offshore I would never consider tossing plastic, and while glass seems OK, it's not something I want on my boat anyway. Tossing tin or aluminum cans seems reasonable, but in an anaerobic environment, how quickly will it oxidize? Oxygen concentrations diminish in deep water. Will a can rust quickly if it sinks deeply? I honestly don't know. Perhaps one of you do. I do know this is why deep water wrecks are often the best preserved.

I get the valid question about where does all the land crap go. In too many places there are inadequate landfill and recycling services. Clearly in an undeveloped country, garbage is simply piled up or off-loaded to the environment somewhere. But I would guess that the vast majority of us on CF are short-term coastal cruisers, sailing around in developed countries. In these cases, there really is no excuse NOT to carry your inorganic garbage back to a proper disposal site. Obviously the boat has space for the cans and jars since we carried it out there to begin with.

Crush it, bag it, and deal with it responsibly. Seems only reasonable.
This is my point and a view point/mentality/quality of sailor that I can respect.

A person that looks at the big picture and makes decisions with or without regulations.
...a person that uses their brain instead of their mouth all the time.

Some old timers were doing this and thinking environment long before it became just another American "buzzword" joke....just blindly folloing the mainstream media comedy.

If you truly live with the land and study it closely...you have a pretty good idea of what being in harmony with it is all about.
__________________

__________________
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 06:55   #32
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,332
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
... Tossing tin or aluminum cans seems reasonable, but in an anaerobic environment, how quickly will it oxidize? Oxygen concentrations diminish in deep water. Will a can rust quickly if it sinks deeply? I honestly don't know. Perhaps one of you do. I do know this is why deep water wrecks are often the best preserved.
(assuming we are cruising where recycling is not available)

My question is, what harm does a wreck do, or a can/bottle that does not decompose? Though an eyesore to a human, it is only habitable ruble to the fish. In 70s there was all this talk about litter, but most of it was relatively harmless junk. The concern should be only for what can leach out.

INtersting to read this study of a new landfill in Fiji; page 13 summarizes flows and later they talk about leachate composition. It becomes clear that food waste it is the major part of the problem. Subtract that (sailors don't waste) and other catagories that sailors don't have (yard waste, tires...) and it really comes down to paper.

http://www.mtu.edu/peacecorps/progra...esis-final.pdf
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 07:09   #33
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Bottom trawling or dragging is not traditional to the best of my knowledge but was developed in the 1970's or so.

It has been devastating on fisheries ...
Evidently, trawling actually dates back to the 1300s.

A petition was presented to the English Parliament, in 1376, calling for the prohibition of a "subtlety contrived instrument called the wondyrchoum". This was an early beam trawl with a wooden beam, and consisted of a net with a very small mesh, about 6 m (18 ft) long and 3 m (10 ft) wide.

History of Trawling; not a modern problem
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:27   #34
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Meh, I'm unimpressed by attempts to camouflage laziness as being beneficial to the environment by suggesting pollution is a viable means to solving a homelessness crisis amongst aquatic creatures.

Do you really think that empty can is going to make a home for a fish? Do you really think that the reef is healthier because you just dumped a bunch on junk on it? Is that what being in harmony with nature means to you? Or are you really just being lazy?

These things you throw away required energy to produce. Aluminum production is particularly energy intensive, as is reflected in it's high cost per pound when compared to steel.

Glass and metal can be reformed almost indefinitely, however when discarded, the significant energy capital invested in producing it is lost forever.

The argument that it is okay to litter glass and metal in the water because it is benign is about as shortsighted and laughable a logic as "my trash is okay because it is only an eyesore"

Maybe some people don't think the sight of trash is offensive. Personally I find the sight of a powerboat to be a visual blight on any wilderness seascape, but to each his own.
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:38   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Nobody has defended dumping anything on reefs or other coastal waters. We have discussed tossing certain items offshore - generally meaning in thousands of feet of water and out of sight of land.

Please find me a recycling center in my cruising grounds so I can be as environmentally conscious as you require of me.

Also please stop driving your car everywhere, running your central AC, dumping pesticides and fertilizers on your lawn and garden, eating factory-farmed food and buying tons of consumer crap because I find that to environmentally unconscionable (and very lazy).

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:00   #36
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,030
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
(assuming we are cruising where recycling is not available)

My question is, what harm does a wreck do, or a can/bottle that does not decompose? Though an eyesore to a human, it is only habitable ruble to the fish. In 70s there was all this talk about litter, but most of it was relatively harmless junk. The concern should be only for what can leach out.
This argument for humanity's inconsequential impact on the environment has been made over and over, through our history. Whenever awareness begins be be raised about an impact the counter-argument seems to go, "Oh don't worry, the trees go on forever, the bison will never run out, the fish are so thick you can walk on them...". You're right, of course, one can or bottle has zero impact. Two, a dozen, a hundred, a thousand ... nothing. How about 10s of thousands? 100s? Millions?? It starts with one.

I'm not an absolutist. I think there are times and places when over the side disposal is necessary. But if I've carried the can or bottle in on my boat, then clearly I have the space to carry it out. If you truly are cruising in a place with no proper disposal services (and clearly some people are cruising in those areas), then I would support tossing into deep water. But for most of us here, we do our cruising in short hops, where proper disposal systems are available. Surely it's not setting the bar too high to have most cruisers carry out what they've already carried in.

To me, it's just basic respect for others, and for the environment that all of us critters share.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:03   #37
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Damn.. didn't realise you were looking to be impressed.. thought you were looking for answers..
Mind it would be hard to impress anyone on a pedestal..
Have a good one..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:15   #38
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,511
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

The other day I was in a museum and saw some jugs which had been discarded into the sea over 2000 years ago... now priceless antiquities. When the OP refers to the "older generation" does he mean the Romans?

The little fishies are still wondering... "WHO TOOK MY HOUSE!"
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:33   #39
Registered User
 
Prairie Chicken's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada or Spain
Boat: Jeanneau SO 43 DS
Posts: 1,114
Images: 1
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Good one Ken! I agree with your earlier comments too in that the kids seem to be the ones littering now. Perhaps it's time to reinvent the "Don't be a litterbug" campaign.

I have a question which arose a few months back with the "taking babies to sea" hallaballoo. I know nothing about diapers, but I'm thinking those disposable ones would have a lot of plastic in them & not be biodegradable. And I doubt if a family cruising would be washing out cotton diapers, although perhaps they are. So, what do passage-making cruisers do with those dirty disposables? I have a feeling I don't want to know.
__________________
Prairie Chicken
><((((>`..`..`...><((((>.
`..`..`...><((((>`..`..` ...><((((>
Prairie Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:06   #40
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Surely it's not setting the bar too high to have most cruisers carry out what they've already carried in.

To me, it's just basic respect for others, and for the environment that all of us critters share.
Like backpackers.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:47   #41
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

On passages we discard organic waste, food scraps etc., over the side. We carry a heavy bag that glass (although we carry little of that) is put into and smashed with a rubber mallet before being dumped over the side. Cans have the tops and bottoms removed and are crushed flat before being discharged over the side. Plastics and waxed packing papers are washed out, cut up and stored in a plastic trash bag until they can be discharged ashore although burning in a fire-pit is often the best way to discard the stuff. Unfortunately, the amount of crap we see in the ocean that obviously comes from shore side sources is exponentially greater than any coming from yachts.

On a recent passage to Key West we thought we saw a flashing light on the horizon to windward of us. We hauled in the sails, gybed around and beat our way back to what we thought might be people in distress in the sea. Instead we found a bunch of partially deflated silver Mylar Happy Birthday; balloons tied together with ribbon, floating on the water surface, 60 miles off-shore. We recovered the mess, some of which already had barnacles starting to develop. I often watch/see balloon releases and wonder where these people think those things will land/end up.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:49   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

It is only like backpackers if you are talking about coastal waters. Nobody has argued for tossing stuff in coastal waters.

Funny how nobody thinks a message in a bottle is littering - those are approached with romance and adventure...

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:55   #43
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Like backpackers.
Backpackers do not carry in 30 square feet of food and beer

I was blown away by the amount of trash I saw being just tossed on the ground or into the ocean in Africa; the "1st world" is only a drop in the pollution bucket in the coming century when the population curve spirals upward in less developed nations.

I haven't an issue with tossing non-chemical aluminum, steel, and bottles overboard, where allowed by law. I agree with the poster that said cans and bottles form living areas for sealife. The sea doesn't care if the bottom of the ocean, ten-thousand feet down, is an eyesore, that's a human contrivance and its unlikely that anyone here, or your grandchildren's children, will ever see that firsthand.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:59   #44
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

If you go on the windward side of most Caribbean islands, you will find an incredible assortment of floatable plastic stuff - shoes, toys, rubber duckies, etc.

These are not from people tossing them in the ocean or from land dumps on the island. This is obvious because there simply does not exist a population within hundreds of miles that could support that amount of plastic stuff and much of it is completely incongruous with the place it is found in. For example, a few years ago, the entire windward sides of the uninhabited Jumento islands were littered completely with dildo's of all shapes, sizes and colors.

This is stuff lost out of shipping containers and floating to the islands.

So all you people in NYC and other hyper-consumer places - please stop buying all this crap because your actions are littering other lands and causing environmental harm. Do you really think your need for Lego's, plastic lawn furniture and inexpensive shoes (and apparently dildos) justifies ruining reef systems and polluting other people's lands?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 11:06   #45
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Do You Dump Your Trash Over Board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Backpackers do not carry in 30 square feet of food and beer

I was blown away by the amount of trash I saw being just tossed on the ground or into the ocean in Africa; the "1st world" is only a drop in the pollution bucket in the coming century when the population curve spirals upward in less developed nations.

I haven't an issue with tossing non-chemical aluminum, steel, and bottles overboard, where allowed by law. I agree with the poster that said cans and bottles form living areas for sealife. The sea doesn't care if the bottom of the ocean, ten-thousand feet down, is an eyesore, that's a human contrivance and its unlikely that anyone here, or your grandchildren's children, will ever see that firsthand.

Where is it allowed by law to throw aluminium,steel and bottles overboard?
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best system to do most of wind/solar/alternator/shore to house/starting/dump + more bene505 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 19 19-05-2014 08:46
It's Never Over Until You Say It's Over maxingout General Sailing Forum 12 16-03-2009 17:32
Where do you dump your excess electricity? bene505 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 13 29-01-2009 12:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.