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Old 17-01-2015, 17:36   #31
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't know, a full size house dishwasher? Two wash cycles, and at least one rinse? Could be 8 gls. Heck a house toilet uses at least a gl per flush don't they?
Water consumption of the average person is phenominal, as well as energy consumption

Check out this http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html


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Energy & water consumption per capita in the USA is stagering...one of the things I find bordering on obscene on my rare visits. Even ashore, off grid house, we use very little of either (composting toilets, all LED lighting...).

Similar aboard a boat. When you are your own utility company you are much more concious of use of resources.

I do have a friend who lives off grid and has a dishwasher, but he has ample fresh water from a large catchment system. He also disconnected the wildly inefficient resistive heating element in the dishwasher and uses an on demand propane system for the hot water.
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Old 17-01-2015, 18:12   #32
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

The link I gave has the USGS saying 20 Gl per load, depending on the efficiency of the dishwasher.



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Old 17-01-2015, 18:46   #33
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

^^^A64pilot, if that's the case, then someone's 20 gal/hr watermaker would have to be run for 1 hr. just to wash the dishes! ...so would require genset or running the main engine. In turn, the implication is also that they would need more dishes, and dish storage, too.

Hmph!
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Old 17-01-2015, 19:44   #34
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

A small wash tub with hot soapy water to wash dishes dump and repill with fresh water to rinse with and a small cup to dump water over plates that won't fit in small half gallon wash tub then drip dry over the tub with small dish drainer next time you wash heat the rinse water and add soap use it as wash water so would just use a half gallon or so water each day for dishes while underway. The other alternative I really like is using paper plates just burn in the BBQ on the rail once a week.
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Old 17-01-2015, 19:53   #35
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaGirl View Post
Does anybody have anything salient to share regarding energy usage, or are you going to continue to debate water conservation?


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Truthfully on a cruiser underway water usage is energy usage you have to take into account the energy needed to make that water my water maker uses 3.5 ah and produces 1.5 gallons per hour so at 8 gallons of water I would use about 20 ah in water that is in addition to the actual power to run the DW my hands are much lower power consuming to operate and as I stated in earlier post I would use about 1.5 ah power to make the water to hand wash hope this helps answer your question
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Old 17-01-2015, 20:17   #36
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

A friend wanted to make a sink into an ultrasonic
dishwasher on his boat. Don't know if he ever
did or not.
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Old 17-01-2015, 23:47   #37
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

Dolfi Uses Ultrasonics to Wash Clothes Without a Machine | Digital Trends

I wonder if you could use this in dishes.
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Old 18-01-2015, 00:18   #38
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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Does anybody have anything salient to share regarding energy usage, or are you going to continue to debate water conservation?
Hi CaliforniaGirl
Sorry for my earlier flippant reply .

It depends on the unit you install and if you use the drying portion of the cycle, but typically small dishwashers use roughly 1 kW/hr.

For a 12V system, that means a power consumption of around 80 A/hr.

You could do this with a huge solar bank and battery capacity, but usually most boats using a dishwasher would run it while the generator was running. The additional power consumption is then not critical. The idea is that at the same time as the batteries are charged, the water maker is run, washing machine and any electric cooking appliances are used etc.

For the system to work, you need a working generator, watermaker, dishwasher and waterpump. There is a lot to go wrong and most cruisers do not want this complexity and dependence.

In addition, it doesn't fit in with the philosophy many cruisers have of wanting to live simply, hence the horrified responses and the host of other suggestions you have received.

SWL
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Old 18-01-2015, 00:36   #39
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Hi CaliforniaGirl
Sorry for my earlier flippant reply .

It depends on the unit you install and if you use the drying portion of the cycle, but typically small dishwashers use roughly 1 kW/hr.

For a 12V system, that means a power consumption of around 80 A/hr.

You could do this with a huge solar bank and battery capacity, but usually most boats using a dishwasher would run it while the generator was running. The additional power consumption is then not critical. The idea is that at the same time as the batteries are charged, the water maker is run, washing machine and any electric cooking appliances are used etc.

For the system to work, you need a working generator, watermaker, dishwasher and waterpump. There is a lot to go wrong and most cruisers do not want this complexity and dependence.

In addition, it doesn't fit in with the philosophy many cruisers have of wanting to live simply, hence the horrified responses and the host of other suggestions you have received.

SWL
Not to mention the additional fuel and maintance costs associated with the additional systems to support the dw
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Old 18-01-2015, 12:20   #40
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaGirl View Post
Before you flame me, realize that I am from a totally drought-parched part of the states, so that is my point of reference. We have way more energy than water.



Dishwashers use less water than hand-washing. This cannot be debated. You can wash a full load of dishes in only 8 gallons of water. Could you really manage that with hand-washing?



So, it's established that dishwashers are water-efficient. How about energy-efficiency on a boat, though? The water has to be heated, plus electricity is needed to run it.



I'm actually thinking about the drawer-type dishwashers (they only use 4 gallons per wash).



I have no opinion here and am just looking for your thoughts.



Go.


I've seen nice ones on Amels can't remember the brand

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Old 18-01-2015, 14:30   #41
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

If you pre-wash the dishes in salt water, you don't need very much fresh water at all. We have a salt water tap (faucet) right alongside the fresh water tap in the galley as, I suspect, do most cruisers.
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Old 18-01-2015, 14:38   #42
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

I have one to prewash however using my freshwater breakdown to show the energy usage of an all fresh water wash
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Old 18-01-2015, 15:06   #43
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

According to Which, dishwashers vary considerably with the best using between 7-10 litres per load and the worst 17-21... if you load it full there's no way you could wash up to 130 items in 7 litres of water by hand but as people pointed out you could always use saltwater..
The average dishwasher is 1800 watts but again this can vary from 1200-2400 watts per hours. if a cycle takes an hour then there's your answer re: energy.
hope that helps
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Old 18-01-2015, 15:26   #44
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

As sioneone that has had a dishwasher aboard for 15 years, I have practical experience.

I have an Equator counter top model that I have built in to a cabinet.

1) You dont need to plumb in hot water. The dishwasher has a built in heating element and will heat the water itself

2) I use less water with the dishwasher because I can load the dishwasher over 2 to 3 days with dishes then do one load. With hand washing, I'm washing dishes after every meal to keep the counter and sink free of dirty dishes.

3) As for energy efficiency, I have never run the numbers on it. I dont run it off an inverter. I typically find need to run my gennie for an hour once every three days when out of port and I just wait to run the dishwasher then. The gennie doesnt even notice the load.

Later,
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Old 18-01-2015, 15:40   #45
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Re: Dishwashers aboard

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We have drilled a small hole in each of our plates bowls and cutlery.. we then long line them out the back and let Neptune wash ours. It saves any arguments and produces 5 mins of amusement until we bring them back in.
No space for a dish washer on our boat. :-D

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