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Old 28-02-2016, 15:45   #1
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Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

Greetings!

We are going to be renovating our 34' Jay Benford Dory Schooner and are planning to use or galley extensively while we cruise. One of the things we would like to do is bake bread. While I'm familiar with baking on land, I am much less familiar with baking on a sailboat. The biggest consideration I have right now is which stove to purchase. Although propane seems to be the logical choice in the US, I know that kerosene (paraffin) tends to be more popular in European countries. I have also seen diesel stoves and I'm highly intrigued. The idea of not needing to carry another explosive gas (we already have a diesel engine) is appealing. We are looking at the Dickinson Pacific or Adriatic series. Does anyone have any experience with these models? I'm looking for a unit that can maintain a fairly constant temperature. An added side benefit is that these models can be used to create a dry heat to warm up the cabin.

I appreciate the input. Thanks!

Jason (Sailing Etoile)
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Old 28-02-2016, 15:55   #2
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

We have a diesel stove, a propane double burner and BBQ. You probably really want to think about where you will be. Our diesel stove is our primary heat source in the winter, with a small wood stove if it gets really cold. I can't cook.......But I can eat...and I can attext to the stove making lots of great stuff. Very nice for slow cooking, you can even bake a pizza. The cook top above the burner is hot all the time even with the stove portion off so a tea kettle lives on it all winter. That said the propane burner gets used all the time, and it would definately be a pretty big inconvienance to not have it. As to baking, Dutch oven recipies work well. As soon as the temp gets above the 60's F having the diesel stove on will make it pretty hot down below even on a low setting, some people like this and have their's on all year. Having a propane BBQ with the HP hose direct to a large tank is very nice anywhere its hot. A good large BBQ will cook plenty without heating it up down below.
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Old 28-02-2016, 15:56   #3
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

A key question is where are you? A diesel stove left on most of the time like the fishermen do works well, but if you are south it's gonna be too warm. Uniform baking in a kerosene burner type make be a dream, although it's been so long I'm not sure if I used my Kero oven much.
Friends of mine baked home made bread in a propane oven that was wonderful.
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Old 28-02-2016, 16:33   #4
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

Thank you so much! I didn't realize that the diesel stoves remain on. I'm starting to think propane may be the better option. My concern is getting propane when cruising (we are planning to sail around the world...over many years.
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Old 28-02-2016, 17:00   #5
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

The dickinson stoves, the "danish stove", and such , is what the fishingboats, and cruisers in northern norway use.

The high end leisure boats however , often comes with the wallas 87d stove.
It's the most sought after stove of them all here , an the most expensive too.

87D Diesel Hob and Oven
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Old 28-02-2016, 17:11   #6
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

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Originally Posted by SailingEtoile View Post
Thank you so much! I didn't realize that the diesel stoves remain on. I'm starting to think propane may be the better option. My concern is getting propane when cruising (we are planning to sail around the world...over many years.
Well.... technically they don't have to stay on... but are a PITA to get going and take a while to burn before doing so cleanly etc. So the regular users like fishing boats just leave them on most often.
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Old 28-02-2016, 17:28   #7
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

The wallas 86 and 87D is heat on demand , takes 15 minutes to heat up.
However, they cannot be used to heat up the cabin. The ceramic top surface can , but you must buy a lid/blower add-on.

The wallas diesel stoves are a bit weaker than their propane counterparts , specially the ceramic top surface (1900w total).

.manitu

edit: One reason diesel stoves are chosen over propane in the arctic isnt added heat, but as all exhaust gasses are vented outside , it does'nt add water wapour to the inside air. wapour wich could turn to dew , or even ice on windows and other cold surfaces.
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Old 28-02-2016, 18:25   #8
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Well.... technically they don't have to stay on... but are a PITA to get going and take a while to burn before doing so cleanly etc. So the regular users like fishing boats just leave them on most often.

And that's exactly it. These fishermen (now retired) start the Dickenson at the beginning of fishing season when we head to Alaska and turn it off when we get back. OK, our last troller had a two burner propane stove (no oven) as well. On the rare occasions when it was warm and not raining we'd use that instead of the diesel. You can bake pretty decent bread in a pressure cooker on top of the propane if you have a flame tamer.

We're also planning on some extended voyaging with our new boat. It has a nice propane stove/oven, but we're going to add diesel heating. That wasn't necessary on the troller as the Dickenson kept everything toasty. The Pacific model will do the same for your Benford. The Adriatic may be overkill. One thing to watch out for is making sure there is some way of controlling backdraft off of the sails.

Cool boat by the way.

Cheers,
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Old 28-02-2016, 18:34   #9
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

My wife routinely made very good bread in our Seaward propane oven. I know several people who had Diesel cookstoves and quickly changed them to propane--it's very convenient, clean, and easy to light. While getting propane can sometimes be an adventure, we managed never to run out, though usually cooking thrice a day.
In the tropics, even a propane stove will make things hot down below--I can't imagine a diesel cookstove down there.
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Old 28-02-2016, 19:02   #10
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

A couple notes on Diesel stoves, They are HEAVY. They definately require more maintenance than propane. And gimbaling would be "interesting" to say the least
*****this is my unproven theory****
Diesel delivered today due to ?? reason Tier III or IV emisions or ?? does not burn nearly as clean as it used to. Our friends lived aboard a aluminum sloop with a Dickenson pacific for over 40 years. They ran it almost all year and would only have to clean it about once a year. The last several years before they sold the boat, the cleaning reqime kept getting bummped up. We usually will do ours once a week or every two weeks if the fuel is happy. We have a barometric dampner with a metered pump delivering constant pressure and calibrate our delivery valve anually per the instructions, but it still does get dirty alot faster than they used to, or so we have been told.

But..it's Oh so toasty down below in the winter...
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Old 28-02-2016, 20:14   #11
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

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And that's exactly it. These fishermen (now retired) start the Dickenson at the beginning of fishing season when we head to Alaska and turn it off when we get back. OK, our last troller had a two burner propane stove (no oven) as well. On the rare occasions when it was warm and not raining we'd use that instead of the diesel. You can bake pretty decent bread in a pressure cooker on top of the propane if you have a flame tamer.

We're also planning on some extended voyaging with our new boat. It has a nice propane stove/oven, but we're going to add diesel heating. That wasn't necessary on the troller as the Dickenson kept everything toasty. The Pacific model will do the same for your Benford. The Adriatic may be overkill. One thing to watch out for is making sure there is some way of controlling backdraft off of the sails.

Cool boat by the way.

Cheers,
THANK YOU! We love our boat too!
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Old 29-02-2016, 01:28   #12
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

We had a two burner with oven Shipmate kerosene stove that my wife cooked delicious meals and baked a ton of stuff when she wanted to. We used odorless mineral spirits/paint thinner rather than kerosene. It seemed to burn hotter and was way cheaper back when we were cruising. Kerosene stoves do need to be preheated but that was not a big deal and took only about a minute to be ready to cook. Had no problem getting kerosene/mineral spirits anywhere. Kerosene has fallen out of favor and new stoves are NLA except for Taylor's in England but they are very expensive. Used stoves turn up occasionally on Ebay. Got a deal on a used Taylor 029. Sold the Force 10 kero stove that came with the boat by word of mouth and had several people wanting to buy it.

At the time we were cruising French Polynesia, mid '70s, you could not get propane or gasoline in the Marquesas and Tuatmotus. The copra boats that supplied the islands had limited storage for highly flammable fuels and there was only enough for the locals. Understand that that is no longer the case though the fuel they have is butane not propane. Don't know if butane will work in a propane stove.

Diesel stoves require a 3" vent which limits where they can be installed. They take a bit of time to light and warm up before they can be used so cook. Doesn't work for cooking on a boat in the tropics of for most anywhere for that matter. The lighting/warmup delay probably has as much to do with lighting them as you leave the docks and turning the stove off when you get back.
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Old 29-02-2016, 01:36   #13
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

We had a Dickinson Adriatic for exactly the reasons you mentioned - no propane on board, light it and it'll keep the boat warm, etc.

In a word, it was sh*t. It worked once or twice in 9 months and we ended up eating out our BBQ'ing most nights as it was so terrible. We had our installation confirmed as being ok by Dickinson, a new fan fitted, etc etc but could never get it to stay lit properly. With the hindsight of some bluewater miles beneath our keel now, I'm not sure I'd want burning diesel slopping around down below either whilst underway. There's also the small fact that it takes 45 mins to warm up before you can even start to think about cooking, plus it takes up a lot of galley space.

We switched out to propane (our Dometic three burner will take propane or butane / Campingaz. Campingaz is available all through Europe and is the preferred option over Paraffin) and couldn't be happier.

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Old 29-02-2016, 05:50   #14
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

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Originally Posted by SailingEtoile View Post
I know that kerosene (paraffin) tends to be more popular in European countries.
Certainly not.
Propane/butane is ubiquitous in the Med.

In my 8 years cruising I have never seen/know someone with a diesel stove.

A couple of northern boats have a diesel heater.

Really, propane is world wide. No problem in the Pacific. Its the main cooking fuel in Asia. You will never go somewhere you can't get it.

Except the USA! Manhattan won't do refills, they have to send the cylinder to New Jersey to fill!
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Old 29-02-2016, 08:49   #15
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Re: Diesel Stove/Oven for Baking (Breads in Particular)

I bought a Dickinson Adriatic on eBay, I also plan to sail around the world and spend a lot of time at high latitudes. I also thought having one less fuel on board was a good idea. When it came time to consider installing it and reading the instructions, with the recommendation that you let it burn all the time or have to wait a couple hours for it to get up to temperature to cook something, I decided I really didn't want it. So it is now for sale, For Sale 2

I decided to solve the multiple fuel problem with a diesel AC generator and an electric microwave convection oven. An interesting thing I added was the works of a bread machine inside the convection oven, so it is now all 3 in one. Probably the only one in the world. On land I typically use the microwave for almost all my cooking.

An interesting thing about making homemade bread on board is the cost of yeast, it is the most expensive part of homemade bread, to reduce this I started making sour dough and really enjoy the flavor of it. I've had trouble keeping the sour dough starter from going bad in the warm damp climate. I started making home made ginger ale, and it will keep yeast active to restart the sour dough when it goes bad, in addition to always having a good drink too. I always have 2 two liter bottles going, it only takes a couple days to make it but it will keep the yeast active for many months if needed. The powdered citric acid was the key to keeping it's cost down.
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