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Old 16-02-2011, 10:50   #1
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BUI Rules on a Charter

I putting together a trip with some friends. We are responsible adults and border on the conservative side of this issue.

First, let's assume that from the time one wakes up until the boat is at anchor for the night, there is no alcohol consumed by anyone, skipper or crew.

Now, from the time the boat is anchored until people call it a night, I am expecting a glass or two of something to be consumed.

To me, this seems a non issue. One of our members has legal concerns. We will be in the San Juans and potentially crossing into Canada.

Is he over reacting or am I potentially asking for trouble?
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Old 16-02-2011, 12:05   #2
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Consuming alcohol after anchoring in the evening is considered a time honored tradition of sailing/cruising. Its called having a sundowner.
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Old 16-02-2011, 13:00   #3
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Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC)

Intoxicated

Drinking boater arrested for not boating...

It seems like there where a few more on this subject also.
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Old 16-02-2011, 13:04   #4
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Looks like you've got an excellent candidate for anchor watch, designated driver, keymaster, bouy boy and bilge watch
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Old 16-02-2011, 13:10   #5
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You can legally drink while operating the boat...you can legaly have open alcoholic beverages in most areas unless there is a local or state ordinance against it...in my experience...rarely enforced if you are being a resonable boater.

Have there been "incidents" to the contrary...yes..but there is a legal limit and if there is no open container rule than having alcohol in your blood below the legal limit is not an issue unless there is an incident where LE can show where the consumption of alcohol degraded your ability to perform.
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Old 16-02-2011, 13:26   #6
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I am not sure what your issue is here.

1) No boozing in transit by anyone. Check. If you are rotating through a watch system, no matter how informally, the "skipper" is the person on watch, because the titular skipper might need to nap, particularly if you are on passage more than 12 hours. So, that person is better stone-cold sober AND not nursing a hangover.

Makes total sense.

2) At anchor: Depends for how long and in what conditions. Alone in the middle of Cozy Cove with a 75 lb. Godzilla hook and one day into a three-day windless high pressure zone? Glass or two for wine at dinner is likely fine, but the first anchor watch should stop there. Yes, I believe in anchor watching when there's enough crew to do so. That doesn't preclude a catnap in the cockpit, but "at the ready" is implied.

3) Surrounded by boats with a deepening low? I would think you would just keep the same sort of sked as on passage. Alert crew on deck checking for dragging, dragging of other boats, swinging, swinging of other boats, lashing down of deck gear, and, if things deteriorate, preparedness to fire up the genny, up anchor and bug out to sea.

In that case, no one should have had a drink. All hands on deck is a real possibility, and someone befuddled beyond lack of sleep could be a huge danger to themselves and to the boat. Besides, if it's a rough anchorage, puking could be a problem. Alcohol doesn't improve that.

Those are the extremes. I think you need to keep the designated watch crew under the limit or stone-cold at all times, and the upcoming watch crew able to be perky and alert by the watch change point.

As for this: Drinking boater arrested for not boating...

I have heard so many variations on this theme that I haven't taken my boat into U.S. waters nor spent money there for many years. It...isn't...worth...it.

I have, however, left as crew from the U.S. and have seen the TSA "failed at mall cop, got this job" in operation. Bad, bad, bad. With our dollar at par, if I want something from the States, I order it online. Sorry for the retail bricks 'n' mortar, but I don't care to risk my boat, record or reputation on some minor official's attitude disorder. That actually goes for our own uniformed apes here in Soviet Canuckistan, by the way. Can't wait for the high seas....

So I understand your concern at cracking a cold one in "border waters". Nonetheless, my advice stands.
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Old 16-02-2011, 14:03   #7
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I will take a conservative approach to the rules while underway ("no").

The real question concerns the rules for being "At anchor". The general plan here is to sail during the day, anchor at night, repeat. Passages are not likely to exceed 5-6 hours. Breakfast, hiking, running around during the morning before the wind comes up.

My reading of the route would indicate use of mooring floats rather than relying on the anchor of this boat or the anchoring skills of the crew.

It sounds like the consensus is enjoy yourself at anchor but don't get stupid and have someone designated as "anchor watch".
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Old 16-02-2011, 14:43   #8
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Definition of operating a vessel in the c.f.r. (federal law)

From:

Justia :: 33 C.F.R. PART 95—OPERATING A VESSEL WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR A DANGEROUS DRUG -- US Laws, Codes, Statutes & Cases -- Justia
95.015 Operating a vessel.

top
For purposes of this part, an individual is considered to be operating a vessel when:
(a) The individual has an essential role in the operation of a recreational vessel underway, including but not limited to navigation of the vessel or control of the vessel's propulsion system.
(b) The individual is a crewmember (including a licensed individual), pilot, or watchstander not a regular member of the crew, of a vessel other than a recreational vessel.


Definition in Washington State is essentially the same

From:

Washington Boating License and Boat Safety Course - Glossary

OPERATETo steer, direct, or otherwise have physical control of a vessel that is underway



For those that want to argue whether underway includes at anchor:

UNDERWAYNot anchored, tied to shore or aground; making progress through the water


There is no reference I've found so far to an open container law like there is for cars.

For Canada there is a thread here somewhere where someone complained that he got in trouble for being intoxicated while at anchor. I'll let someone from Canada find those rules.

John
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Old 17-02-2011, 04:24   #9
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This is a copy and paste from criminal code of Canada
THE LAW ... (ALCOHOL & BOATING)
CANADIAN CRIMINAL CODE


It is an offence, under the criminal code of Canada to operate any vehicle or vessel when the ability to do so is impaired by alcohol or while the alcohol concentration in the bloodstream is more than 80 milligrams per l00 millilitres of blood.

The Criminal Code of Canada also states that a person can be charged for impaired driving even at levels below 80 mg/100ML.

Many people fail to realize that "two" charges can be levied against them should they be found to be impaired while operating a vessel or vehicle. One for being over 80 mg, and the other for simply being impaired.

Ontario Liquor Licence Act:

Sec. 32 (3) No person shall operate or have care or control of a boat that is underway while there is contained in the boat any liquor, except under the authority of a licence or permit.

Sec.32 (4) Exception-Subsection (3) does not apply if the liquor in the boat, (a) is in a container that is unopened and the seal unbroken, (b) is stored in a closed compartment.

Sec. 32 (5) A police officer who has reasonable grounds to believe that liquor is being unlawfully kept in a vehicle or boat may at any time, without warrant, enter and search the vehicle or boat and search any person found in it.

Sec.32 (6) Definition-In this section, "boat" includes any ship or boat or any other description of vessel used or designed to be used in the navigation of water.

CONSUMING LIQUOR IN A BOAT,
ONTARIO LIQUOR LICENCE ACT REGULATION 718


Sec. 3 (7) A boat with permanent sleeping accommodation and permanent cooking and sanitary facilities, other than a boat used to carry passengers for hire is considered to be a private place while the boat is at anchor or is secured to the dock or land.

DRINKING AGE: The legal drinking age in Ontario is 19 years old.

THere may be some differences regarding facilities aboard the boat in BC. You will have to check that out.

"
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Old 17-02-2011, 04:34   #10
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Most states in the U.S. consider the vessel to be underway only if under power. If the vessel is not underway, you cannot be charged with BUI.
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Old 17-02-2011, 04:45   #11
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Can always run up the "Not under command" signs.
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Old 17-02-2011, 08:33   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromoregon View Post
To me, this seems a non issue. One of our members has legal concerns.
Tell the member to piss off and take someone who has a brain. You really don't need a vacation destroyed by some temperance guild member.
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Old 17-02-2011, 08:59   #13
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Quote:
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Tell the member to piss off and take someone who has a brain. You really don't need a vacation destroyed by some temperance guild member.
I agree!
Ditto crew/guest that say " My sailing instructer says..."
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Old 17-02-2011, 09:05   #14
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Quote:
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Tell the member to piss off and take someone who has a brain. You really don't need a vacation destroyed by some temperance guild member.
I second him/her for the anchor watch on deck... wrong wave length for down below.. someones got to be responsible and grown up........
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Old 17-02-2011, 09:13   #15
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the insight.
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