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Old 19-02-2016, 17:53   #1
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Wrapped line around a winch

Was on a cat charter and was not paying attention to the electric winch line as i was pulling up a dingy and it wrapped around multiple times and around itself so tight that there was no moving it. Only noticed it when the dinghy was all the way up. No reverse on the electric winch. Since there was no give and i could not relieve tension by taking weight off the line ended up cutting the line and just replacing it with a spare. No biggy but made me wonder...what if a similar thing happens on a main halyard when the sail is all the way up and there is no give? What can i do to relieve tension...bring the boom up at the mast and transfer the load to a different line? What is there is no moving the boom? Will be paying more attention in the future but would like to hear what are my options.
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Old 19-02-2016, 18:14   #2
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

Sergy Your concern is quite common but it is one of those questions that has been discussed, answered, considered, explained etc etc on many other places all over the internet and is best handled there first before posting it on CF (IMHO--somebody will flame me for saying so I am sure). It is called an override. Often times this is due to poor line handling but also due to improperly placed hardware. HOWEVER....there is a lesson here and that is that anytime you are pulling on a line--any line, whether it be a dockline, a sheet, a halyard or an anchor--don't just pull--keep a constant watch on the result of your action. Why not do a web search? Start here perhaps: Learn to Sail Like a Pro - How to Prevent Sheet Winch Overrides
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Old 19-02-2016, 18:30   #3
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

Tie another line to the line under tension with a rolling hitch. Take the new line to a second winch and unload the overridden line. With the tension off of the overridden line, you should be able to clear the override.
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Old 19-02-2016, 19:24   #4
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

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Originally Posted by jkishel View Post
Tie another line to the line under tension with a rolling hitch. Take the new line to a second winch and unload the overridden line. With the tension off of the overridden line, you should be able to clear the override.
You can do this, but it's quite common to have an override that's so tight that you need some help in freeing it up. Even with this "fix".
In which case, you take the tail of the overridden line, & lead it to another winch, & using that winch's power, attempt to peel (unwind) the stuck line off of the drum.

But bottom line, the operator of a powered winch, is probably better off treating it like a non self-tailer. And only keeping enough wraps on the drum so that if he/she stops applying tension to the line's tail, then no more line gets winched in. Regardless of whether the drum's spinning or not.

The same is true when you're tailing a winch which someone else (or several someone elses) are providing the "power" for. Because in the heat of things, it's common for them not to hear your call to stop grinding, right at the moment when you need the line to stop coming in.

PS: There's usually a bit of room for things on a Main, to "Go North". Sometimes simply via the tack shackle.
And in others, via the boom to going up a bit, vertically. With such, many times, it involves disconnecting the gooseneck (which is the simple bit). And then loosening a bevy of other lines. Plus, occassionally making a little "wiggle room" in a couple of hydraulic lines too (Be CAREFUL on this one).
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Old 19-02-2016, 19:43   #5
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>

PS: There's usually a bit of room for things on a Main, to "Go North". Sometimes simply via the tack shackle.
And in others, via the boom to going up a bit, vertically. With such, many times, it involves disconnecting the gooseneck (which is the simple bit). And then loosening a bevy of other lines. Plus, occassionally making a little "wiggle room" in a couple of hydraulic lines too (Be CAREFUL on this one).
Very good observations above.

To the PS part, add a rigid vang. With the mainsail still connected, even if the gooseneck is disconnected...not much is going to move.

Good luck, but don't neglect careful "feeding" of your electric winches.
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Old 19-02-2016, 23:18   #6
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

Yeah, another good reason not to spend all that money on an electric winch. I've done some damage just cranking on a regular winch. Can't imagine what would happen if I had free reign on a "magic button."
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Old 20-02-2016, 00:33   #7
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

A prusik knot is a good way to safely remove load from a line without having to use knife later on. Handy to have a piece of spider line or some other jacketed high tech in a spliced endless loop. Easy to put in and easy to remove.


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...7_AkEQ9QEIIjAA
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Old 20-02-2016, 05:36   #8
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF,Sergv.
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:02   #9
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
In which case, you take the tail of the overridden line, & lead it to another winch, & using that winch's power, attempt to peel (unwind) the stuck line off of the drum.
Curious - How well does that work?

I have heard of it but never tried it. The rolling hitch has always been enough for me.
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:29   #10
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Curious - How well does that work?

I have heard of it but never tried it. The rolling hitch has always been enough for me.
Its the first thing I do and works well. Never had a problem doing it, never had to cut a line.

Points made about winches, yep you gotta keep an eye on them and feel the pressure. I never put a furling line on a winch etc.

As my first offshore racing skipper always used to say "look aloft". Just gotta watch what you are doing

But mistakes happen. As the OP said, just cut the dinghy painter and get out another bit of rope and keep smiling
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Old 20-02-2016, 10:19   #11
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingscotts View Post
A prusik knot is a good way to safely remove load from a line without having to use knife later on. Handy to have a piece of spider line or some other jacketed high tech in a spliced endless loop. Easy to put in and easy to remove.


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...7_AkEQ9QEIIjAA
Second the prusiks! Handy for many things! I always keep a couple of loops ready on the boat.
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Old 20-02-2016, 10:57   #12
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

I've never had to cut a line using the second winch technique, but it takes a little time, which is not good when you are racing. One tip I learned for overrides on jib sheets was that if you drop the halyard the sheet will loosen up.

As mentioned before, if you get frequent overrides its time to change the angle of the lead into the winch.

Another common cause of overrides is helpful newbies pulling on the sheet or halyard in front of the winch--make sure they pull in front of the lead or turning block, not between it and the winch.
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Old 21-02-2016, 08:23   #13
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

if you tie your halyard stopper knot a couple of feet up from the end you will have enough tail to add another (Bowline in) line and reverse the over ride using another winch.


you may also want to learn how to make a timber hitch which can be tied into either wire or rope between the winch and the turning block on the loaded side. you can them take the load onto the timber hitch which will slacken the loaded line
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Old 21-02-2016, 10:08   #14
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Curious - How well does that work?

I have heard of it but never tried it. The rolling hitch has always been enough for me.
It works well enough, that in 3 decades of racing (& cruising) I've never needed to unload a line in order to pull out the override via using another winch.
Up to, & especially including; jib sheets & spinnaker guys on boats into the mid-60' range. Pocket Maxi's, & Big Swan's included.

The nice part is, that it's KISS; requires zero extra lines, down time, or anything else. Though before you do it, you need to know the boat, & that the winch which you're using to pull out the override, is properly mounted/has a good backing plate. And also, that you have good communications between the parties involved.

But even in the midst of tacking duels, it's worked pretty well. Albeit under those circumstances, the adrenaline's up a bit. Especially if you're going to center punch another boat if the line sticks (so have a knife handy).
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Old 21-02-2016, 10:22   #15
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Re: Wrapped line around a winch

^^ well great, thanks . . . I learn something . . . I had heard of the technique but never really knew how well it worked.

I should have tried it sometime . . . but what I was used to doing always worked well and with a jammed line it somehow never seemed like the time to experiment.

We never had it happen to a halyard - I guess our leads were good - always happened to one of the side deck lines (from your long list of lines in the other thread ) that was NOT lead thru a permanent turning block.

. . I usually had a couple strong cords and webbing pieces hanging from my binnacle, for various random purposes, and I would just grab one of those and rolling or prussik them on the stuck line.
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