Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-04-2019, 14:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: Norseman 447cc
Posts: 87
Would mandatory licensing change things?

I've been boating now for over 20 years in the U.S. and the level of poor seamanship that I see year in and year out often has me shaking my head. I know many never bother to pick up a book or learn about the various rules of the road and it shows in how improperly some operate their vessels. For a while I had thought the bad behavior was just a reflection of the fact that manners seems to be a thing of the past but as I have gotten to know more people that are in the "I have no idea what I am doing but I had the money and I wanted a boat" camp I am thinking more and more that it is simply a lack of education. Simple things like understanding the give-way rules, simple knot tying, basics of anchoring, basic navigation, etc are just not understood.

I saw this most starkly when my father had to go through the process of getting a license in Washington to operate his little 16 foot fishing boat after having cruised around the waters of New York for well over 30 years. He was amazed at just how much he had been doing wrong for so long and just how little he really knew.

So, do you think mandatory licensing would help reduce poor seamanship? For those in places where this is in effect what are your thoughts on how it has affected the operation of boats in your area? I'm not a fan of having to ask for government permission to do things but I fear as the more money than experience crowd grows the waters around here will just get more dangerous.
__________________

svspirited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:03   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,878
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

When the % injuries per mile / vehicle gets to be even 20% that of diving maybe worth considering.

Some areas of life less regulation is a good thing.
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:07   #3
Registered User
 
siamese's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 190
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

Licensing would just be more for government to do poorly, and collect a fee for doing it. No thanks.
siamese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:21   #4
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 5,368
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

California now requires a boat license. Thing is there is no operating test. I passed it without a bit of studying. While it's a nice idea, I don't see it being that effective in reducing poor boat handling.
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:25   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 7,027
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

How many bad drivers do you know? Most donít know how to properly behave at an intersection with 4 stop signs.

There is mandatory licensing to operate a car.
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:34   #6
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 6,457
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

I think the answer would depend on the licensing scheme. One with high standards, including a practical exam, has a better chance of upping the competency level of operators. But this would require significant resources, and the political will to weather the inevitable storm of protest. I really canít see it happening.

Of course, the USA could go the route Canada took. Weíve had a licensing system for nearly two decades now. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), ours sets a pretty low bar. It is a written test ó no practical. And my recollection of the questions were that any reasonably sensible person could easily answer them. IOW, it didnít demand very much of people. I really doubt if it has actually improved operator competence in this country.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:36   #7
Registered User
 
AnglaisInHull's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 706
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

See No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat... and probably others.

You're going down a rat hole here.
__________________
My boat is like me. People look, and say "... pretty good shape ... for its age ..."
AnglaisInHull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:48   #8
Registered User
 
Macblaze's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Edmonton/PNW
Boat: Hunter 386
Posts: 784
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

I disagree with the premise that licensing would do anything for "seamanship" but, like cars, I do think teaching basic rules of the road and safety is a good idea for the tyros out there. The much maligned Canadian PCOC does very little to help educate the committed cruisers and boaters but I do believe that simply educating the average run-of-the-mill wannabee that there are rules and that boating can kill you makes the overly simple process worth the expense.

I grew up on lakes and was surprised that I did learn a few things and the rest of the yahoos I shared the water with certainly benefited from knowing there actually is something known as right-of-way...

But strict licensing like for flying or commercial shipping? IMHO it would be a huge waste of time and $$ given the small amount of good it would do.
__________________
---
Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus...
Macblaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:49   #9
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,285
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

Do we have a real problem here? How many lives of cruisers are lost each year due to lack of training? How much money is lost? How many people are injured?

The list is not in any priority.

Now, what is the cost to implement such a system? Not only in money but also in time spent by the public and the certifying agencies.

I hate to put this in cost benefit terms but thatís what we need to do. My guess is the benefit does not outweigh the cost. But that did not stop a lot of useless regulations in the past.
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 15:54   #10
Registered User
 
Opie91's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Boat: C&C 34
Posts: 880
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

Connecticut has had a state boating license for over 20 years.


FYI: The water is still full of idiots who have no idea or care about rules of the road or safety.
Opie91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 16:02   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: at home
Boat: no longer cf member
Posts: 198
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

I spent the first 26 years of my life in a country over run with rules. Not gonna say where mate, that would cause folks to get all silly

But I feel lucky every day to be away from that! Always looking over the shoulder in case some goose stepping nazi is watching and slaps fine on you for anything.....literally anything. Walk ten feet from your car with it unlocked ...thats $120 fine. To the point of stupid.....can't have anything hanging off your rear vision mirror......seriously , it gets super stupid.

It was once stated by a farmer I knew......."like trying to live with a foot on your throat" I thought that about accurate.

So NO!!! Be carefull what you wish for......whats the saying.....the road to hell is paved with good intentions?

It's a slippery slope, and once the bean counters and lawyers get hooked on the cash there's simply no end to it.

Trust me, Ive seen it, Ive lived it and I am thankfull I managed to get the hell away from it.
Allied39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 16:19   #12
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,883
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

In the US, many of us got driver training when we were 15 and our licenses when we were 16. We pick up poor habits over the years and don't care to learn as we age. Same with boating licenses. People have to want to learn new or improved skills. There also needs to be positive incentives for those who can show competency. Otherwise, why should anyone care to better themselves?
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 16:22   #13
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 6,751
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Do we have a real problem here? How many lives of cruisers are lost each year due to lack of training? How much money is lost? How many people are injured?

The list is not in any priority.

Now, what is the cost to implement such a system? Not only in money but also in time spent by the public and the certifying agencies.

I hate to put this in cost benefit terms but thatís what we need to do. My guess is the benefit does not outweigh the cost. But that did not stop a lot of useless regulations in the past.
you would think so but there was a death this weekend in quartermaster harbor this past weekend . Unlicensed operator ( required here for over 10 hp ) hit an anchored vessel .
The operator was ejected from the vessel and drowned the anchored vessel ( in a marked anchorage ) was thankfully unoccupied at the time.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 17:01   #14
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2011
Location: PDX
Boat: Gulfstar 50
Posts: 1,619
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

USCG issues licenses - States issue Boater Education Cards. A small nit pick - but words are powerful.

Education is a good thing but one has to choose to actually follow the rules. I've let my USCG license expire but even so the thing that irks so many Masters is the number of recreational vessels who choose to navigate in an unpredictable way. Tonnage rule comes to mind.

I also have been guilty of this....

I know of one person who was the USPS Educational Chair for their respective squadron. This person was teaching Seamanship etc and insisted that the US Western Rivers rules applied to the Columbia River (The Columbia is in the Pacific North West after all).

For those who are outside of the US I have only one word - Mississippi.

(Side note you spell the Mississippi thus: "miSS iSS iPP i" as a way to remember how to spell it. )

Heck - in the USA all drivers are licensed. This includes a driving test and well as a written. But how many of us yield to the car on the right when in an intersection?

Some how we got it into our heads that I was here first so I get to go first.....

Licensing - Not going to get what you want and WILL cost you more for very little return.
evm1024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 17:16   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 139
Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

instead of Gov't regulations what about working through insurance companies to provide good discounts to boaters with licenses.. this would leave the gov't red tape out -dkenny64
__________________

dkenny64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Change propeller.. things goes worst.. garrobito Propellers & Drive Systems 13 27-03-2015 20:08
Anchoring in Exposed Shallow Water: How Quickly Things Can Change . . . thinwater Anchoring & Mooring 9 19-10-2011 18:25
Last Change Has Screwed Up the Posting Boxes, Among Other Things DeepFrz Forum Tech Support & Site Help 10 29-12-2010 18:09
Things to Change While Boat Is Hauled Out? b-rad Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 09-10-2009 15:56
Things that work and things that don't... svHyLyte Construction, Maintenance & Refit 58 03-11-2006 22:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.