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Old 10-04-2019, 11:36   #271
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

You must register to vote.

The inability to vote is enforced by setting rules about who gets to be registered.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:36   #272
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

They do require a “license” to vote in the US. Specifically a voter registration card is needed. You can’t walk up and vote unless you are in the voter registration database. Well, you can vote in most states but it won’t be counted unless you are registered.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:40   #273
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Originally Posted by guyrj33 View Post
As an example in many states in the USA released felons are not allowed to vote, and there is no mandatory voter licensing for training.
felons that have completed their probationary period can get their voting rights restored by the courts.
That is aside the fact that to vote in the U.S. You ha be to register and receive a voter registration card which has your address and citizenship recorded on it .
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:07   #274
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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The government does not need to issue a license before it revokes privilege.
Sure… you can probably come up with lots of ways to restrict a privilege. One direct way is to pass a “thou shalt not…” law. But licensing is one easy and clear way.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:30   #275
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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So, do you think mandatory licensing would help reduce poor seamanship? ...what are your thoughts on how it has affected the operation of boats in your area?
Being a bureaucrat I am loath to suggest that more bureaucracy is the cure for much of anything… For years the recreational boating world was essentially “self-regulated.” You could operate a reasonable sized non-commercial vessel with no state/federal documentation, but most of the operators I knew took either the Coast Guard Auxiliary course or the USPS, and as they come on the various sailing and boat course offered in larger areas – and most of us took an “advanced” course on some aspect of boating every year or so, just to keep our heads in the game I suppose -- most I knew took the responsibility of being a skipper rather seriously. But that seems to have changed; boaters seem to think they have a right and the nautical law enforcement seems stretched way too thin to police such common sense rules as no wake, honoring diver-down flags (or even knowing what they are) or rules of the road, let alone navigation (without a GPS anyway). I recall an old USPS instructor remarking time and again, that “Just because you have the right, doesn’t make it right…”

I’m not sure what the answer is – and I’d like to blame the kids on the jet-skis, but I’ve seen just as big of breaches by grey-beard ignoramuses operating 30-40 foot boats, so the issue is across the board. My solution is mine – I avoid most other boaters like the plague until I’m comfortable with them being close to me. Smart motorcyclists learn to ride defensively (assuming the other driver/rider doesn’t see you and will run straight at you at the last moment – don’t give `em the opportunity) and, so far, boating defensively is the only thing I have much confidence in. But I recognize that such doesn't solve the problem, it just helps keep my crew and me out of (most of) it...
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Old 10-04-2019, 13:50   #276
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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felons that have completed their probationary period can get their voting rights restored by the courts.
That is aside the fact that to vote in the U.S. You ha be to register and receive a voter registration card which has your address and citizenship recorded on it .
Felons having voting rights restored varies by state.

Pick another example if you don't like the voting example.
The point is, it's not a license that enables law enforcement. Trespass for example you may trespass on your neighbors land until he calls the cops on you. The cops don't stop you and ask for your license to trespass, do they? No they enforce the law and haul your sorry abc off to jail.
You can boat without a license and if you break the rules law enforcement can stop you and society can punish you. All without a license.

Discuss the concept not the nit picky details on an example.
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Old 10-04-2019, 14:31   #277
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Discuss the concept not the nit picky details on an example.
Agree!
I believe it is the boat owner's responsibility to ensure safe operation of his vessel.
#1... Whether he is on board or not.....(that takes care of Charter operational standards)
#2...Random sobriety tests for vessels underway....(the drunks)
#3....Mandatory annual registry to keep owners updated on their status
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Old 10-04-2019, 14:50   #278
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Originally Posted by guyrj33 View Post
Felons having voting rights restored varies by state.

Pick another example if you don't like the voting example.
The point is, it's not a license that enables law enforcement. Trespass for example you may trespass on your neighbors land until he calls the cops on you. The cops don't stop you and ask for your license to trespass, do they? No they enforce the law and haul your sorry abc off to jail.
You can boat without a license and if you break the rules law enforcement can stop you and society can punish you. All without a license.

Discuss the concept not the nit picky details on an example.
Well I don't know if you Americans have a point system on your licenses (demerits etc.) but for me the points and potential to lose my license is a much bigger deterrent than a fine or the infinitesimal chance of landing in jail.

And there is no way any water based authority is going to be able to do the kind of policing that traffic cops do now so that's not much of a deterrent anyway.

As I have said before I am totally in favour of enforced training and luke warm on licensing but I do think there needs to be some better regulation of just who can climb behind the wheel of a 40' motor yacht in a busy harbour.
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Old 10-04-2019, 15:32   #279
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Originally Posted by guyrj33 View Post
Felons having voting rights restored varies by state.

Pick another example if you don't like the voting example.
The point is, it's not a license that enables law enforcement. Trespass for example you may trespass on your neighbors land until he calls the cops on you. The cops don't stop you and ask for your license to trespass, do they? No they enforce the law and haul your sorry abc off to jail.
You can boat without a license and if you break the rules law enforcement can stop you and society can punish you. All without a license.

Discuss the concept not the nit picky details on an example.
ok this one same thing. the cops will remove you from the property because you don't have a license to be on it.

Ownership / permit are licenses of a sort .
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Old 10-04-2019, 15:43   #280
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Well I don't know if you Americans have a point system on your licenses (demerits etc.) but for me the points and potential to lose my license is a much bigger deterrent than a fine or the infinitesimal chance of landing in jail.

And there is no way any water based authority is going to be able to do the kind of policing that traffic cops do now so that's not much of a deterrent anyway.

As I have said before I am totally in favour of enforced training and luke warm on licensing but I do think there needs to be some better regulation of just who can climb behind the wheel of a 40' motor yacht in a busy harbour.
Have you ever know anyone to drive without a license?
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Old 10-04-2019, 15:45   #281
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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ok this one same thing. the cops will remove you from the property because you don't have a license to be on it.

Ownership / permit are licenses of a sort .
I can't understand the point you are trying to make or how it adds to the discussion of should boating licenses be required?
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Old 10-04-2019, 15:48   #282
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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I can't understand the point you are trying to make or how it adds to the discussion of should boating licenses be required?
we are well past the point of discussing the original topic of the thread.
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Old 10-04-2019, 16:11   #283
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

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Have you ever know anyone to drive without a license?
Many many. In over a dozen different countries, both locals and expats, and multiple baby-mummies in fact.
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Old 11-04-2019, 00:00   #284
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Re: Would mandatory licensing change things?

"Have you ever know anyone to drive without a license?"
National figures range from 1 in 10 in NY to 1 in 4 in Florida. (I think that was the highest in the country.)
It is not that these folks never went to GET a license, many of them had been licensed drivers. Whose licenses were revoked or suspended, and who continue driving.
In Nassau County, NY, maybe 8 years ago, the DA got a little pissed off at all the people coming in to appeal suspensions, or getting suspended in the court, who then just walked out back to the parking lot and DROVE WAY. One day they stationed some cops out there....a lot of folks got marched right back inside to jail.
Folks just don't give a damn. About licenses OR insurance.
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