Would mandatory licensing change things?

[valleyweather]

The rules in place now and laws, ******** we all have to go through because of slave-like thoughts like yours, man...

Please take your suggestion, or question, and place it somewhere no one has to ever see it. Free minded people will reject your soccer-mom like suggestion...

[capeharj]

How many millions of licensed drivers in the country are there? How many stupid drivers are there? A drivers license has not made the roads any safer and would not do anything for boating, all they care about is what they are doing at the time and nothing or no one else.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

California now requires a boat license. Thing is there is no operating test. I passed it without a bit of studying. While it's a nice idea, I don't see it being that effective in reducing poor boat handling.

In your case, sounds like a typical Gov money grab..

[dcssteve]

I sail in the area of the California coast. Right of way rules, forget it. I operate under one rule. Give way to that boat that’s coming toward you, because probably he is not going to yield. Especially true of the fishing boats and even many sailboats. No, I’m afraid I don’t think it will help. I wanted to learn these things because I wanted to be safe I guess many are too self-involved to do that or at least consciously practice them.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by svspirited

Fair point and one of the reasons why mandatory training is now required around my local waters to drive a jet ski and for children under the age of 17 to operate any vessel with a motor. Too many serious injuries or deaths. Will the training reduce that? Maybe, maybe not but some portion of those will come away better operators, some will pretty much ignore everything they have been taught and continue to be idiots on the water but it is, in my opinion at least, better than having them all be uneducated idiots.

NJ has had that mandate for many years.. I still see the same number of bad boaters on the waters. Stats shows very slight changes in accidents and deaths. Laws only work for those who agree to follow them.

[grantheadifen]

I'm the Global Director of Education at NauticEd.

Agreed that government regulations and licensing has tended to water things down to the dummies. State licensing (boater education card) does a mediocre job but at least there is something there - only some states require it for adults. Almost all states do for young adults and kids. Usually the law is if you were born before X year then you don't need a license or education.

Most people do not know this yet - but the USCG came out in 2017 with the American National Standards for Sailing Training and Assessment. It was accepted by the American National Standards Institute. And I must say, they did a great job of it. It is not mandatory but the intention was to provide a guide for sailing schools to implement the program. So, while the government in the USA will never implement a steadfast meaningful license, the USCG have done a good job of setting the standard. It just now needs to be publicized as existing and implemented. While all schools should come up to the standard, at present neither US Sailing or ASA have picked up the standard. NauticEd however is recognized by the USCG as meeting the American National Standards for the On-The-Water training class.

The greater point I have to make however is accessibility. We are now well into the 21st century, education needs to be accessible and inexpensive - commoditized. Everyone should have easy and simple access to the critical knowledge to be safe. Many people are self-taught or taught by a friend - they don't shell out the big bucks to go to a professional school, while perhaps they should but the simple reality is that they are not going to. So simple and easy access to free or inexpensive and well-organized information for all folks is essential.

[Allied39]

Originally Posted by grantheadifen

I'm the Global Director of Education at NauticEd.

Agreed that government regulations and licensing has tended to water things down to the dummies. State licensing (boater education card) does a mediocre job but at least there is something there - only some states require it for adults. Almost all states do for young adults and kids. Usually the law is if you were born before X year then you don't need a license or education.

Most people do not know this yet - but the USCG came out in 2017 with the American National Standards for Sailing Training and Assessment. It was accepted by the American National Standards Institute. And I must say, they did a great job of it. It is not mandatory but the intention was to provide a guide for sailing schools to implement the program. So, while the government in the USA will never implement a steadfast meaningful license, the USCG have done a good job of setting the standard. It just now needs to be publicized as existing and implemented. While all schools should come up to the standard, at present neither US Sailing or ASA have picked up the standard. NauticEd however is recognized by the USCG as meeting the American National Standards for the On-The-Water training class.

The greater point I have to make however is accessibility. We are now well into the 21st century, education needs to be accessible and inexpensive - commoditized. Everyone should have easy and simple access to the critical knowledge to be safe. Many people are self-taught or taught by a friend - they don't shell out the big bucks to go to a professional school, while perhaps they should but the simple reality is that they are not going to. So simple and easy access to free or inexpensive and well-organized information for all folks is essential.

Said the guy who makes a living off education, and who would make more money if we were all forced to partake.

Just saying.

Sheesh, talk about whipping a horse to death though eh? I am just going to agree to dis agree with those that wish to impose more laws / rules/ expenses on me.

[gator749]

Well, I think a well-run licensing program that would include a serious practical test in the class of vessel the boater is using would be helpful. However, there is no way any state (or God-forbid the Feds) could or would ever run an effective program. The issue is organic and location/culture dependent. My experience in SC is not great, but in places like NY, NJ and Florida it's far, far worse. Be careful out there.

[GordMay]

Thanks, Grant. I wasn't aware of the new(er) training standards.


ANSI/NASBLA 102-2017: Basic Boating Knowledge – Sailing
➥ https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazo...ge_Sailing.pdf

ANSI/NASBLA103-2016: Basic Boating Knowledge –Power
➥ https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazo...2015_11_18.pdf

NASBLA - National Association of State Boating Law Administrators
➥ https://www.nasbla.org/education/national-ed-standards

[psaltydogs]

All of you swabbies are missing the point behind boat operator licensing. The main reason for the licence is not so much to make sure you know what you are doing, it's so that if you prove to be a hazard on the water, the courts can remove it and thereby prohibit you from operating a boat.



When I learned that Canada had such a licensing programme, I jumped for joy, briefly believing there is hope for Man after all, and on my first visit to BC I sat for the examination. My licence number is one of the very lowest and I was proud to earn it. Washington State began its programme much, much later, and I was 'grandfathered' into it.


To this day, I have never heard of enforcement of these rules, but the rules are there if needed by the authorities. Only the deserving types will ever encounter that enforcement.

[Beppe123]

I totally agree. In Europe you cannot operate a boat if you do not have a license and it makes a lot of sense.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by grantheadifen

I'm the Global Director of Education at NauticEd.

Most people do not know this yet - but the USCG came out in 2017 with the American National Standards for Sailing Training and Assessment. It was accepted by the American National Standards Institute.

This is awesome - but I am having a hard time locating the source document - can you provide us with a link?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by capeharj

How many millions of licensed drivers in the country are there? How many stupid drivers are there? A drivers license has not made the roads any safer and would not do anything for boating, all they care about is what they are doing at the time and nothing or no one else.

Not saying that we necessarily need or would benefit from boat licensing, but this is an absurd claim about auto licensing. Could this person please explain to us how they know that auto licensing has not made roads safer?

[Beau.Vrolyk]

I think most folks are entirely missing the point of a license requirement.

Here are my opinions on why they'd be nice to have (in someplace are nice to have).

1) It makes it trivial for the authorities to pull someone over and get them off the water. If one assumes that most folks won't bother, which is a safe bet in America, then it's a free "cuff 'em" for the harbor police.

2) It is all about liability. If you don't have a card and the other guys do, and it's a "he said" vs "he said", you probably lose in court. Moreover, if there is some fine print in your boat's insurance policy, you may not be covered at all. The insurance company gets out of paying for the damages.

3) It will never improve "seamanship" just as automobile drivers licenses haven't improved driving. While rules can be tested for, good judgment has to be observed.

4) Arguing about it is a waste of time, as the Gov. wants the revenue, the insurance companies want the escape hatch from liability, and life is just too short.

Go sailing, would be my advice.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by capeharj

How many millions of licensed drivers in the country are there? How many stupid drivers are there? A drivers license has not made the roads any safer and would not do anything for boating, all they care about is what they are doing at the time and nothing or no one else.

Actually, this statement is false. There is plenty of evidence to show that a move to a drivers’ license system that sets a high bar for knowledge and skill DOES produce safer drivers. But it has to be one focused on skills and experience.

The problem with most boat license systems are the same as the older-style drivers licenses; they set a low bar and don’t focus on actual skills training. A boater license system that sets a high bar likely would produce better boaters.

BUT/this kind of system costs a lot to administer and manage.

AND/despite all the grumbling, accident rates in boating is very small.

A further AND/ is that virtually all the accidents that do happen are focused in a few narrow areas of boating; mostly smaller open powerboats, then canoes/kayaks, and personal watercraft. The accident rates (morbidity & mortality) in cruising-level boats is statistically insignificant.

THEREFORE/a general license system is really a solution in search of a problem.