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Old 10-08-2011, 19:02   #1
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Will She Tip Over ?

My wife and I are new to sailing, bought an American 22 that is 3300# and has 900# of ballast in a walk in keel. 225 sg. ft of sail area. The wife really hates heeling, we are only out in 15kts or less wind. Could the boat actually capsize if make a mistake?
P.S. Can't afford a cat just yet.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:14   #2
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Re: Will she tip over?

To actually capsize - turn over - you need to do some serious wrong things. In an ordinarily rigged and sailed boat you may lay the mast spreader in the water but the boat will naturally rotate into the wind and right itself. Before you get to that point you ease the sheets to get the boat back upright. In a sudden gust you release (let fly) the sheets and the boat will right itself. Remember sailing is an active sport where you need to be doing things and thinking about what you are doing.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:16   #3
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Re: Will she tip over?

Possible in fifteen knots? Well, anything is possible with a gust or shift (or lightning strike), but no, not for a normal boat.

Here, knock yourself out:
Capsize Formula
Capsize Calculator
Boat Rating
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:23   #4
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Re: Will she tip over?

Thanks osirissail, I've read some books and sailed her about ten time now, and absolutely love it. But I think the wife's extreme nervousness wore off on me. I seem to be doing well, and I believe I know why people like furlers so much, although I haven't tried one.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:33   #5
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Re: Will she tip over?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady A View Post
Thanks osirissail, I've read some books and sailed her about ten time now, and absolutely love it. But I think the wife's extreme nervousness wore off on me. I seem to be doing well, and I believe I know why people like furlers so much, although I haven't tried one.
I'll bet you a donut that your wife is picking up on your lack of confidence, and *that* is why she is nervous.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:39   #6
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Re: Will she tip over?

Allenpeda,
Thanks for the links. I would have said "I don't have a lack of confidence", but when I read that it seemed to me you might be on to something, although painful for me to admitt.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:50   #7
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Re: Will she tip over?

She says I owe you a donut
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:51   #8
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Re: Will she tip over?

Tip over? Probably not.

Go far enough to scare the crap out of you, almost deffinately yes.

One of the best things I learnt when I started sailing originaly (some years ago now) was if you start to heal to an angle that you don't like, be ready to dump the main. By that I mean, release the mainsheet at the end of the boom (no, not all the way..) so that the boom moves away from the wind and spills most of it's air. This is the quickest and easiest way to correct an uncomfortable heal. Once youve done it a few times and realise that YOU are in control, not the wind, then your confidence will grow.
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Old 11-08-2011, 00:31   #9
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Originally Posted by Lady A
My wife and I are new to sailing, bought an American 22 that is 3300# and has 900# of ballast in a walk in keel. 225 sg. ft of sail area. The wife really hates heeling, we are only out in 15kts or less wind. Could the boat actually capsize if make a mistake?
P.S. Can't afford a cat just yet.
You might go out on a blustery day and give it a try. Without the wife. I doubt you can do it. Close the hatches first. Keep a hand on the mainsheet.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:40   #10
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

Is it possible? Yes, absolutely. Likely? Not in 15 kts of wind, but take it out in the right (wrong?) conditions and it can become very likely.

A key element of "seamanship" is learning to know your boat and the conditions, and how to avoid those situations where capsizing becomes likely. That is not at all hard to do. I will say, however, that I see this sort of fear much more in people who started out in fairly large boats, where a capsize could be disastrous.

Personally, I started with small dinghys and catamarans, where capsizing was just part of the fun. It was easy to figure out how to avoid a capsize. The fun came in trying to push the boat right to the edge, knowing that if you did capsize it was no big deal. Now I mostly sail larger boats and heeling is no issue at all, because I know what it feels like when you're getting close to the edge, and how to avoid that.

Now pitch-poling a catamaran, that's where it gets REALLY interesting!
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:25   #11
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

You have purchased a boat that most sailors would call "tender." It was designed to fit on a trailer, not to sail, and it will never sail well. The flat bottom and the shallow keel will always make it feel unstable. Compare the underwater profile of your boat to something like a Santana 22, and you will see that there is a world of difference in the basic design.

Even if you were a skilled sailor, the boat you currently own would never give you confidence. You are probably wise not to take it out in windy conditions.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:55   #12
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

I also would suggest taking the boat out by yourself in about 15 kts and get used to how she behaves on all points of sail. I used to have a similar boat Venture 22 with swing keel. When it got to around 20 kts I was way over when going upwind. I almost got knocked down a couple times but it was good to know how she went and how to quickly dump the main or change course in an emergency. Unfortunately I had no reef points but turned out the boat sailed well under main alone when a lot of wind. So try different sail combinations and reefed main if you have one. On mine they warned that swing keel should be locked down if flipping it was any possibility. (I never really did that but not a bad idea). You should be able to get her to sail comfortably but I would guess more than around 15kts will be too much.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:02   #13
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

On the other hand learning to sail a "tender" boat successfully and under control will lead to your being a much better sailor when you do move up to a larger sailboat.
- - I used to teach using a 17ft Newport similar in design to yours, I add more floatation foam in every space I could cram it. Then I would take out students and let them push the limits of the boat until they learned to control it well. Occasionally we would swamp the boat but it would not sink. A bit of time with a bucket and we were back sailing again. It is nice to have a small boat you can use to learn your limits without fear or learn how to maximize its capabilities without damaging the boat.
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Old 11-08-2011, 17:16   #14
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

All together, class: The time to reef sails is ____ ____ ____ ____ ______ __ .

There have been some great threads in the "re-assuring the reluctant spouse" genre that should be useful. Your mate should have as much confidence in the boat as you, and you might come to the conclusion that someone else, such as a professional instructor who is also patient and talented as a teacher, could help her get that confidence. There are also nice women-only programs.
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Old 11-08-2011, 17:19   #15
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Re: Will She Tip Over ?

You probably could if you tried really really hard. That being said, you will know when you are pushing it, you will know a long time before you are pushing it. If the rail is in, maybe reef...
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