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Old 01-05-2016, 22:06   #16
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Didn't call it Butterfly coil, but that is what I was taught for braided line 40 years ago by my club's instructor. Regular coil was for laid line. Laid line has a natural twist, braided doesn't.
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Old 01-05-2016, 22:49   #17
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

International Sail and Power Association teaches this approach to line storage..

Another good video

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Old 01-05-2016, 22:53   #18
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
How would a butterflied coiled line
be tossed?

With a regular coil done without the
twist (hence making a figure 8 coil),
then taking half of the coil in each
hand, half is thrown while the other hand
pays. Not so sure how a butterfly would
toss freely.

I'm willing to be enlightened...
Same way. It works. Fold, split, throw.
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Old 01-05-2016, 23:28   #19
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Same way. It works. Fold, split, throw.
I don't see it. What would you split?

In the video he doesn't even mention
coiling without putting a twist in, the
so-called figure 8 coil. It comes off
without any twist, because you don't
induce a twist in as you coil it. The figure
8 keeps the loops from going into the
other loops because they're blocked by an X.

I'm not sold on the butterfly. One loop
can go into another loop, causing a
hitch if you pull the loop that has gone
through.

Also, the no twist figure 8 coil can be
done with both ends fast (as can the
butterfly coil).
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:12   #20
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Jackdale, Thanks for the excellent video. The folding is important for my braided line and not so new, but the better finishing gasket was, although an old technique, new to me.

'love learning new and useful skills!
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:17   #21
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

they do that, only it's called 'flaking' or 'faking' the line
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:28   #22
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
International Sail and Power Association teaches this approach to line storage..

Another good video

So, he calls it folded, instead of butterflied. Maybe that's why I've never seen it talked about in sailing, they use different terminology.
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:39   #23
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
How would a butterflied coiled line
be tossed?

With a regular coil done without the
twist (hence making a figure 8 coil),
then taking half of the coil in each
hand, half is thrown while the other hand
pays. Not so sure how a butterfly would
toss freely.

I'm willing to be enlightened...
Here's a couple of videos for throwing rescue lines.

A figure 8 coil



And a butterfly coil throw



I found them instructive for my white water rescue needs.

Cheers,

Bryan.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:18   #24
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Now....who uses the over/under method for coiling their hoses to keep the kinks out?[/QUOTE]

Have used the butterfly method for many years. As a young diver using wire braid reinforced diving umbilical, you learn quickly about the over/under method to save deck space.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:33   #25
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Whether to "figure 8" or coil depends upon the use more than anything else. When you will be taking the line of the "face" of the "figure 8" or coil, use a "figure 8". If you had the line coiled you'd be introducing a twist as you took off line and you'd get kinks. On the other hand, if you plan to throw the line to somebody on a dock or another boat or shore, and significant distance, have the line coiled and throw the coil so that it unfolls as it goes, of course holding one end. You will be able to throw it more accurately and further that way and kinks will not be introduced since the coil will be unwinding as it travels. Throwing a "figure 8" is almost impossible to throw any distance accurately and without tangling.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:53   #26
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

How do you end that method for hanging the line?

With regular coiling, i grab an end of the coiled line, get several wraps on and tuck the bitter end in yo keep it neat and able to be hung up.

Same ending on the figure 8?
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:19   #27
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Just about every book or instruction on handling braided lines on a boat recommends using a figure-8 type coil, which is the same thing as butterfly as far as I understand. I have to say that the premise of your question is false, as sailors do "butterfly their coils", at least for braided lines. Three-strand line is another matter however.

Or I guess the answer to your questions could be: "Because they are using three-stand rope which should be coiled clockwise so as not to kink".
I'm with you on the three strand. I cannot see that working since you need to roll the line to make it coil. It is about like hanking three strand. Looks as if braided line would work fine.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:23   #28
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

My ASA 101 class last May taught it to the class.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:28   #29
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

All depends on how the line is laid up. The other issue is what happens if the entire coil is dumped on the deck into one big heap(happens)?
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:30   #30
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Re: Why do sailors not butterfly their coils?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
How would a butterflied coiled line
be tossed?

With a regular coil done without the
twist (hence making a figure 8 coil),
then taking half of the coil in each
hand, half is thrown while the other hand
pays. Not so sure how a butterfly would
toss freely.

I'm willing to be enlightened...
Butterfly coils throw much better than circular coils. They are much less likely to tangle and offer good distance. Butterfly coils are the standard for throwing a rope in white water rescue for example. Butterfly coils are usually thrown thrown under hand or side arm but can be thrown overhead. You can simply hang onto one end with your non throwing hand. Another advantage of butterfly coils is you can just grab half the coil and toss just that half, which is much more difficult with circular coils.


I typically coil my docklines with a butterfly coil and hang at least one from my stern pulpit with a clove hitch for quick access should I ever need to throw a rope quickly. (Coiled as the video shows)

Long lines can be butterfly coiled doubled, (not shown in video) much more quickly than a traditional circular coil and if two long tails are left, be carried in a backpacker's coil if need be. I do this with long utility electric cords as well making them very easy to toss out without coils getting all wrapped up in each other.
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