Why are our words for waves so inadequate?

[Tessellate]

That article on the misconceptions of Eskimo snow words is interesting - didn't realize there might not really have been so many - but the last paragraph makes the point that even if they don't have 50 literal words they do have a rich, complex language for describing it.

And that's what I was getting at - that as sailors it doesn't seem like there's a rich, commonly known way of describing waves across the community. Like there is with many other aspects of sailing - I could describe sail trim for many different wind conditions and sail types to any decently experienced sailor and he/she would know what I meant. Admittedly sail trim is a simpler, more concrete thing to describe.

But ask your average sailor to describe the waves they were in and they'll say things like "not too bad" or "big, we took a beating!" Press for more detail and you'll both struggle to communicate it. I'm not asking for single word descriptions - word phrases or sentences would be perfectly fine - the point is we need a way to understand each other and know what the other's experience was like.

So I feel like the next stage of my growth in seamanship is learning how to assess and describe wave states, and how to respond to them.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

I'm not asking for single word descriptions - word phrases or sentences would be perfectly fine - the point is we need a way to understand each other and know what the other's experience was like.

So I feel like the next stage of my growth in seamanship is learning how to assess and describe wave states, and how to respond to them.

Perhaps after a lifetime at sea I've never had a shortage of local descriptions.... And advice.

Here's one:
"Tehuantepecker....if you can't hit the beach with a bucket full of stones...you are sailing too far offshore"

[mrohr]

Best is Beaufort scale……Devised to describe a fully developed sea state as a result of various wind strengths. Most today use this scale to describe wind strength, which is ok,
but not as useful as its original intent.

Hope this helps, not ,of necessity complete,but a great place to start.

……………………………luv you all………….mike……………………….

[cabo_sailor]

This thread brings to mind the lyrics of an old Gordon Lightfoot song, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald "

" does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"


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[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Lol.
I get by with hmmm, damn, and OH SH#%!.

Would be amusing to develop a spoof on the Beaufort scale using a similar vocabulary. ;-)

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Everyone missed the scariest one of all ROGUE and yes it comes under you had to be there. Also known as a holy sh#$% wave mine was over 70 ft tall. and cost us a crewman.

But, it gets overused a lot, I've heard people use the term for waves in the upper end of forecast significant wave height...even in 6-8' seas.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

1 And that's what I was getting at - that as sailors it doesn't seem like there's a rich, commonly known way of describing waves across the community.

2 But ask your average sailor to describe the waves they were in and they'll say things like "not too bad" or "big, we took a beating!" Press for more detail and you'll both struggle to communicate it. I'm not asking for single word descriptions - word phrases or sentences would be perfectly fine - the point is we need a way to understand each other and know what the other's experience was like.

3 So I feel like the next stage of my growth in seamanship is learning how to assess and describe wave states, and how to respond to them.

1 it doesn't seem like That's because what IS available and USED are the height and period. And if they're breaking. That's what is NECESSARY to describe their effect on a boat. Anything else is just lyrical.

2. The experience is based on the size and frequency. It's all water, and it goes up and down and back & forth.

3 My experience: go out, deliberately, in some snotty weather, come back and ch3eck the buoy readings for where you were. You will then get to learn what the terms mean. Of course, wind over ebb, standing waves over bars and other site specific anomalies are all out there, too.

What we've all learned, over the years, is that if there is no need for additional descriptions, they just don't magically appear. Because they're not required.

[Peter200]

I sailed past Cancun recently and saw a Mexican wave 😉

[El Pinguino]

Nobody has mention 'rouge' waves yet... they pop up quite often on CF.....

How many words do eskimos have for waves?

[Pelagic]

[QUOTE=El Pinguino;1896680

How many words do eskimos have for waves?[/QUOTE]

Not sure but I highly recommend their book
'Fifty shades of Nose'....

[belizesailor]

Maybe because Western cultures have done much of the studying of waves. We tend to go more technical (ie: all the parameters we have developed for describing wave forms), whereas indigenous cultures are more experiential over long periods of time and develop richer linguistic vocabularies.

For example, I bet the Kuna Indians in the San Blas, and probably S Pacific cultures, have a lot more words for waves.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

...
I don't care what they may be called, when the period = height, not any fun.

Even less fun when height is in meters

But I get the OP's question. How do you describe the shape of the waves in all that technical jargon? Period and height don't get it. And how about multiple wave trains, each with its own period and height? I'm thinking of a hurricane in my past, where, as the storm went by we had three distinct wave trains. Trying to describe what that was like, when the trains combined, is very hard to put into words. And the shape those 'towers' had when all three combined is nothing like a 'wave'.

Same thing for reflections that occur near a coast. One reflection? Two? More? What's it like at the various nodes and nulls?

So maybe we're trying to describe 'sea state' rather than waves, but I agree that there seems to be a paucity of commonly used descriptions in English that convey understanding in a short phrase. Nothing like 'powder' or 'Sierra cement' or ... Best I've been able to come up with for my hurricane experience is '10 foot chop on top of large seas' but that provides a pale and weak picture of the actual experience.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

.

For example, I bet the Kuna Indians in the San Blas, and probably S Pacific cultures, have a lot more words for waves.

Don't know about the Indians but in the Micronesia culture, not so many words.

Instead they have developed an incredible intuitive map OF WHAT AFFECTS CHANGES IN WAVE SHAPE AND PERIOD...and use that dynamic to navigate with.

Perhaps I am not alone on this....., but on long ocean passages I become mesmerized with studying individual waves, follow the interaction and the subtle differences that verify the changing weather system from far away. I also sense the tide changes in this gaze but it would be impossible for me to catalog into words.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Even less fun when height is in meters

But I get the OP's question. How do you describe the shape of the waves in all that technical jargon? Period and height don't get it. And how about multiple wave trains, each with its own period and height? I'm thinking of a hurricane in my past, where, as the storm went by we had three distinct wave trains. Trying to describe what that was like, when the trains combined, is very hard to put into words. And the shape those 'towers' had when all three combined is nothing like a 'wave'.

Same thing for reflections that occur near a coast. One reflection? Two? More? What's it like at the various nodes and nulls?

So maybe we're trying to describe 'sea state' rather than waves, but I agree that there seems to be a paucity of commonly used descriptions in English that convey understanding in a short phrase. Nothing like 'powder' or 'Sierra cement' or ... Best I've been able to come up with for my hurricane experience is '10 foot chop on top of large seas' but that provides a pale and weak picture of the actual experience.

Yes, I agree, But, but, but.... all of this is covered in good seagoing texts. My point is that the OP is looking for NEW, and waves have been around for soooo looong that there simply isn't too much mofre one can do to describe them.

Now, if you were going to ask me about the new things in AIS, radar, electronics, electronic navigation or closeups of Pluto, maybe I'd agree.

[Sailor Doug]

How about some thing simple like comfort factor.


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