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Old 25-10-2009, 10:45   #1
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Which Shroud ?

hello all
I have been lately receiving conflicting opinions related to my problem ,
I wonder if I can find a logical yet scientific and convincing answer to my dilemma in here.
while under way in a strong blow, I noticed that the port lower shroud ( lee side ) gets somewhat loose ( this is normal )
when I change tacks the port lower shroud gets under tension while the starboard lower shroud remains tight (slightly less then before)!
my question:
should I tighten the port one to take the slack in it when sailing ??
or should I tighten the starboard lower shroud some more to balance the opposite one ??
thanks for your feedback
Georges
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Old 25-10-2009, 11:10   #2
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Generally you are trying to accomplish two things:

(1) get the mast centered in the boat. Easiest way to check this it take the main halyard and bring it down to the toe rail neat the port chain plate - lock it off (or mark it) at that length, and then swing it over to the starboard toe rail at the same point. If the mast is centered it will just reach the toe rail as it did the other side. If not adjust the side stays until it is centered.

Once you have the mast centered you move on to:

(2) get the stay tension on both sides the same, so that they are just barely "not slack" when on the lee side in some wind. To accomplish this, you take the boat out sailing, and tighten up one side a turn or two and tack and tighten up the other side the same amount (to keep the mast centered), and keep doing that until both sides are 'just not slack' when on the lee side.

You want them 'just not slack' because, if they are slack they flex and bounce which accelerates metal fatigue, and you don't want them over tight because they will bend the boat.

That's rigging 101. It can get a lot more complex if you are trying to tune the boat or match the mast to a mainsail curve,, but that will probably do it for you.
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Old 25-10-2009, 11:25   #3
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Hello gbendaly , you have rig out of tune?? normally you have a slight loose shrouds in the leward side , depend of the boat and rig ,are you place your eyes close to the mast track when sailing? Sight up along the track from the boom to the masthead and check if the mast is straight sideways all the way up, what kind of rig you have 1 spreader 2 or 3? masthead rig? fractional?
in my boat i dont like slack shrouds in any way, normaly sailing in 20 to 25 kts i have the lleeward side prety tight, also i dont like the shock loads in a leeward loose shroud when the boat fall of from a wave, depend of the boat, my boat is a csy 44 prety tough , and the chainplates new in 2007 and the masive hull around the chainplate area let me tune the rig hard, anyway the lee shroud in some boats is loose in some way, but i think you need a rig tune soon or later,
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Old 25-10-2009, 14:27   #4
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Probably one more tight than the other. Re-tune to equall tension. Try again.

b.
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Old 25-10-2009, 16:48   #5
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Mr. Starzinger has it right. Particularly if you go out in challenging conditions, you want sufficient tension to keep the mast "in column", a phrase you will hear often. You may wish to invest in (or to borrow) a Loos-style tension gauge and to start there. You will probably find all stays slack by about one-third; that's what I've seen on most recreational boats that aren't raced. You may be pleasantly surprised at the improvement in your sailing qualities once you are "cranked up" to spec (which is usually a function of shroud and stay gauge). A suggestion: Get two socket wrenches and tighten down all the bolts securing your chainplates, including the forestay and backstay chainplates. You must make sure these can't move and are free from defect (replace "dished" washers or bent bolts, for instance, PRIOR to loading up the stays.

Your mast may also have prebend or an adjustable backstay, etc., but that's dealt with after you put the mast in column and sufficiently and equally tensioned in all places.

Just as an example: on my Viking 33 (a '70s racer-cruiser), I have 1/4" stays and the backstay takes 1,100 lbs. of tension, the forestay 1,250, the uppers 960 and the lowers 840. When I reach those numbers, I may tighten or loosen slightly based on my own sails, style of sailing and expected conditions.
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Old 25-10-2009, 16:58   #6
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Estarzinger is right on except for the term "side stay."
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The way I learned it in American English, a shroud is standing rigging which keeps the mast from bending from side to side. A stay is standing rigging which keeps the mast from falling fore and aft. If that is so then there is no such thing as a "side stay."
regards,
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Old 25-10-2009, 17:58   #7
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If that is so then there is no such thing as a "side stay."
John, Maybe it's a rotating mast.

Seriously, my question is how far over are you heeling the boat? Excessive stress on the rig will cause the lee side to go slack no matter how tuned the rig is. 30-35 is when my shrouds start to slack and it's tuned to specs.

Your rig should be tuned evenly on both sides with a loos gauge in relation the the size of wire that you have.

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Old 25-10-2009, 18:09   #8
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If that is so then there is no such thing as a "side stay."
regards,
Well, if you google "SideStay", you will find it used in a couple hundred pages across the net. Evans has more sea time and miles under his keel than at least 99% of the members on this forum...my guess is it's a proper term. His adjustment instructions are perfect too.
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:32   #9
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Yeah, but is it a shooting offence?

We call the kitchen a kitchen.
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:43   #10
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We call the kitchen a kitchen.
I call it a galley, but now that you mention it, I don't like "settee". I think I'll call it a couch.

Sorry for the thread drift.
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Old 25-10-2009, 20:10   #11
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We call the kitchen a kitchen.
The horror. The horror...
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Old 25-10-2009, 22:29   #12
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I call it a galley, but now that you mention it, I don't like "settee". I think I'll call it a couch.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Its not a couch its a sofa...
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Old 26-10-2009, 00:39   #13
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Well, if you google "SideStay", you will find it used in a couple hundred pages across the net. Evans has more sea time and miles under his keel than at least 99% of the members on this forum...my guess is it's a proper term. His adjustment instructions are perfect too.
That's kind of you, but Beth is the picky one about language. Someone once told me that they could immediately pick out my posts from hers because mine had about half the words misspelled (I have since gotten google spell check). So, John may well be correct . . . The horror. The horror
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Old 26-10-2009, 02:14   #14
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thanks all for the feed back
I will follow your advice and re-tune the rigging although I am pretty confident that my ( pre- bent towards the stern ) mast is centered and the chain plates srongly fixed. I have only one level of spreaders and I sail my boat pretty hard. it is a 28 foot cruiser and my problem is with the PORT LOWER-SHROUD ONLY. the starboard lower shroud stays tight even under leeway while the port one becomes slack under leeway . my question is should I take the slack while sailing ?? and how ?? is it by turning the port turnbuckle or by turning the starboard one which is under tension and may influence the balance
thanks
georges
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Old 26-10-2009, 02:16   #15
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oh and by the way , is there any other way to test the tension of the rigging without a tension gauge ??
thanks
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