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Old 14-03-2016, 06:20   #61
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On Always Having an Exit Strategy

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Well, where I am going, as Michael knows, looks a lot like Hydra's picture, so I am always setting an oversize bow and a "recommended" size stern anchor. I would be a little hesitant to set two bow anchors just because as was mentioned, it could be a hassle dealing with two off the bow, BUT I think it is a good idea to be able and ready to set two off the bow and I can imagine times and places where that would be a good idea. I am usually tucked into small anchorages, but I also just like to be able to keep the boat headed into the swell because currents and winds change at night, in some cases 180 degrees (hence the big stern anchor.) Running the stern rode, or a line hitched to the stern rode, to the bow is not so hard if I need to turn the bow to the wind. HOWEVER as Michael says, sometimes you may want to get out of a place in a hurry and a stern anchor could be a liability then, especially if it is set in a place where if you suddenly find yourself broadside to the wind, and when you retrieve the stern, the boat will swing in such a wide arc in a strong wind that it will drift into the rocks or beach you've been trying to avoid in the first place before you can haul in on the bow, if that makes sense. In that extreme case I'd consider dropping the stern, putting a buoy on it and come back for it later when things calm down. Haven't had to do that yet but I think about it. Wherever you go, just be sure you have a workable escape plan.
Good tip. Too bad some of our presidents weren't thinking that way : )

Thanks,

G2L
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Old 14-03-2016, 06:21   #62
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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Originally Posted by Juho View Post
A typical day at the Baltic Sea, nine boats with stern anchor.
Lovely, isn't it!

I never saw this technique before I tried sailing in the Baltic. The shores are so steep-to that people are able to anchor so close that they can step down onto the shore right from their boats -- can you imagine? To do that, you have to go in bow-first because there's less draft (and no rudder) in the bow. So you throw an anchor off the stern. Baltic boats sometimes even have windlasses in the stern for this, and usually have a roll of anchor line on the pushpit, and an anchor bracket there. I used my Fortress kedge which works excellently for this purpose, led to an electric sheet winch.

You need a special ladder to climb down off your bow, however. Baltic sailors also moor to quays bows-to -- the opposite of Med mooring.
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Old 14-03-2016, 06:32   #63
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

Actually in some case's in the Med I choose bow to the jetty as it is a real pain in the ass with all the tourists etc peering into the cockpit and salon from the public quay.. bow too gives me the privacy I want.
In marina's the foot traffic is minimal and fellow boaters who are more polite, so will go stern to if using one.
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Old 14-03-2016, 06:46   #64
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
You need a special ladder to climb down off your bow, however.
In the picture you can see the ladder at the bow of the sailboat (and maybe the split pulpit too if you have sharp eyes ).
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Old 14-03-2016, 06:51   #65
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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There seems to be a lot of advice here that is not taking into account all the different conditions. For example, people usually don't take an anchor to shore when the shore is marsh, mangrove or somebody's private back yard..... or in mosquito territory. There are different expectations and consequences of using two anchors when the anchorage depth is 50 feet or 12 feet. There are different considerations when the depth is 30' ten yards from shore or 3 feet 100 yards from shore. .... and then there's the weather, current set and drift, tidal range, and the anchoring behavior of your neighbors. In addition, there's the different behavior of various boats by their design in current and wind.

I can say what I do in situations with my boat, but all these variables make it very difficult to accept that there are any universal answers. This tends to make me skeptical of those that claim the "right way"!
Well said. While my head is spinning from all of these various interpretations, scenarios, and possible solutions, the one obvious take-away is that there are a number of good principles (like more weight is good weight) but also many variables to consider when deciding how to anchor your boat in various conditions and environments. As you note, experience will help to tell the tale, and as you also note, not all of us sailors have the same assets an access.

Thanks for your responses,

G2L
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Old 14-03-2016, 07:02   #66
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How to Deal With Hurricane Wind Shift?

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Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
I have used stern anchors on rare occasions to when I was forced to lie with the bow to a concrete bulkhead, and there was no other option except leaving. For example in Egypt, I was forced to tie up with my bow to a sea wall in a manner that was a worry, and the stern anchor was an insurance policy against disaster.

In the few instances that I have used a stern anchor, it was always an FX-37 Fortress, and it held well.

When bad storms are bearing down on a anchorage, I have an anchoring rule that goes like this: He who anchors last, anchors best. If a tropical storm is coming or a hurricane is heading my way, I am one of the last people to set my anchor. After everyone has taken their positions, I select mine so that nobody else can drag into me. Then I set two 70 pound anchors about forty five degrees apart in the direction of the greatest wind and swell/storm surge.

So far it has worked.
I appreciate this advice, (especially the anchoring last idea) but I am wondering what you do when the hurricane winds come from one direction, then exactly the opposite a few hours later. As the hurricane approaches, the wind will be hitting you from one direction, but the eye will eventually pass over you and the wind will then hit you from the opposite direction. How do you adjust to these conditions in a major storm, with two anchors out?
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Old 14-03-2016, 07:53   #67
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Re: How to Deal With Hurricane Wind Shift?

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Originally Posted by Gone2long View Post
I appreciate this advice, (especially the anchoring last idea) but I am wondering what you do when the hurricane winds come from one direction, then exactly the opposite a few hours later. As the hurricane approaches, the wind will be hitting you from one direction, but the eye will eventually pass over you and the wind will then hit you from the opposite direction. How do you adjust to these conditions in a major storm, with two anchors out?
Once again I want to state that there are a number of different "good" plans for different people with various boats in many locations. I can't use the "anchor last" plan for two reasons. First, if you arrive late there may not be a good space for you and, second, you can't determine that you will be last.

With today's forecasting you can generally expect a three day warning for the potential of a major storm and I like to seek a safe anchorage even if I may be missed. I want an early arrival at a location that offers the following:
1- Little fetch in all directions
2- good holding substrate
3- relatively shallow water
4- a forgiving shoreline,- sand or mud instead of rock
5- little debris that can come down on me,- logs, sheds, derelict vessels
6- a high surrounding topography,- hills, trees, buildings (windbreak)
7- few or no other anchored vessels

For those tropical storms that I have spent at anchor I've always been able to find the first three criteria, but never actually all seven. I set one good anchor on an all chain rode with a series of three nylon snubbers set in a series so that after the first chafes through, then the second is taking the load. I remain facing into the wind and I have reduced all the possible windage on deck.

I remain alert, but once the wind reaches hurricane force I'm not functional on deck. The outcome is all in preparation, then it's just watching the show with little sleep.
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Old 14-03-2016, 08:14   #68
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Re: How to Deal With Hurricane Wind Shift?

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
Once again I want to state that there are a number of different "good" plans for different people with various boats in many locations. I can't use the "anchor last" plan for two reasons. First, if you arrive late there may not be a good space for you and, second, you can't determine that you will be last.

With today's forecasting you can generally expect a three day warning for the potential of a major storm and I like to seek a safe anchorage even if I may be missed. I want an early arrival at a location that offers the following:
1- Little fetch in all directions
2- good holding substrate
3- relatively shallow water
4- a forgiving shoreline,- sand or mud instead of rock
5- little debris that can come down on me,- logs, sheds, derelict vessels
6- a high surrounding topography,- hills, trees, buildings (windbreak)
7- few or no other anchored vessels

For those tropical storms that I have spent at anchor I've always been able to find the first three criteria, but never actually all seven. I set one good anchor on an all chain rode with a series of three nylon snubbers set in a series so that after the first chafes through, then the second is taking the load. I remain facing into the wind and I have reduced all the possible windage on deck.

I remain alert, but once the wind reaches hurricane force I'm not functional on deck. The outcome is all in preparation, then it's just watching the show with little sleep.
Thank you. Truly appreciated. Thinking about starting another thread on exactly this topic to hear from other hurricane survivors. This is a serious concern for a newbie like me when I will be in some very out of the way places.



Thanks again,



G2L
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Old 14-03-2016, 08:29   #69
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Re: Tell Us the rest of the story ...

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Originally Posted by Gone2long View Post
... So then what happened?

Seriously, you need to share that experience.

G2L
We lived.

I was at the helm for 24 hours nudging the engine forward into the gusts that 1 guess were 80 knots.
The cyclone changed course at the very last moment and the eye was 60nms from us, but we still copped big winds cos it was a Catagory 5.
If it hadn't missed us I am quite sure I would have lost the boat, but I think if we could have stayed in the beached hull we would have been fine. If the boat had broken up and we were forced onshore there was no cover from breaking tree branches. The tree type there fractures the trunk in 4 foot lengths and flicks them through the air (killing 13 people in some previous cyclone)

Lessons learned: don't be in a cyclone/hurricane area in the season.
An anchor is unlikely to hold you in more that Cat 2.
Hotels are nice in hurricanes/cyclones.
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Old 14-03-2016, 09:08   #70
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Re: Tell Us the rest of the story ...

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We lived.

I was at the helm for 24 hours nudging the engine forward into the gusts that 1 guess were 80 knots.
The cyclone changed course at the very last moment and the eye was 60nms from us, but we still copped big winds cos it was a Catagory 5.
If it hadn't missed us I am quite sure I would have lost the boat, but I think if we could have stayed in the beached hull we would have been fine. If the boat had broken up and we were forced onshore there was no cover from breaking tree branches. The tree type there fractures the trunk in 4 foot lengths and flicks them through the air (killing 13 people in some previous cyclone)

Lessons learned: don't be in a cyclone/hurricane area in the season.
An anchor is unlikely to hold you in more that Cat 2.
Hotels are nice in hurricanes/cyclones.
Thanks Mark. Have posted another thread on this issue to see what others have to share from their experiences. As per your comments, they are no doubt, good advice. I would try to secure the boat as best as possible, as far in advance as possible, then "head for the hills", literally , if this were an option.

Let's talk more later, on the other thread.

Regards,

G2L
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:06   #71
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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I tend to use a wind scoop.. less pissing about.
A few minutes of "pissing about" for a little crew comfort is well worth it to me.
Don't want a cranky mate on board.
It takes less time to turn the boat around, than it takes to read your post and write this.

A common place to sit in the cockpit is facing aft, next to the companionway, with back against the bulkhead.
How much breeze will you get from a wind scoop? Nada. Plus, the dodger blocks air.
Turn the boat around and you and your crew, will agree, that it's a "cool" idea.


I use wind scoops also. They work great. bigger the better.
The best "scoop" I have used, is the dink stowed on the foredeck, with a halyard raising the bow. (Forward hatch has to be under the dink. Duh!)
If it rains, lower the dink a bit, and leave the hatch open

Sometimes it's "cool" to think outside the box.
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:22   #72
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
In the Bahamas most knowledgeable cruisers use 2 bow anchors regularly. Set in a vee as the anchorages are small and this way reduces the swing.

In many anchorages you would use 2 anchors one facing the incoming tidal current and the second facing the outgoing tide. In Nassau and near inlets it is an absolute necessity.
In Nantucket there is good holding in the tidal inlet across from the mooring field. We use two anchors, bow and stern, to stop a 180 switch twice a day. Once we woke to a steady 20 kt. northerly on our beam, which put tremendous tension on the rodes so that we couldn't retrieve both from the deck. Tied a fender to the stern anchor and gingerly released it because it had tremendous tension on it. Retrieved the bow anchor normally and used the dinghy to retrieve the stern.

It was a hassle but I will still do this in order to stay put. One sailor who didn't do this met us at 3am when he dragged and bumped us.

Ed
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:33   #73
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

I heartily endorse the ebooks from Attainable Adventure Cruising. John, Phyllis, et.al. have e-chapters on virtually every aspect of owning, maintaining and cruising.
Anchoring is a subject elaborated, and discussed in the opinions posted by your fellow cruisers with heaps of experience.
It was free blogsite for years, and now, for a very nominal fee (around $10/year, I think), you can access the entire library, new posts come out usually about once a week from quite a close knit cohort of seasoned, usually high latitude, sailors.
You can still join for free, receive their email topics, and see loads of posts. And they make unsubscribing painless.
Fully support and endorse their philosophy and site (for example):

https://www.morganscloud.com
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:36   #74
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pirate Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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Originally Posted by over40pirate View Post
A few minutes of "pissing about" for a little crew comfort is well worth it to me.
Don't want a cranky mate on board.
It takes less time to turn the boat around, than it takes to read your post and write this.

A common place to sit in the cockpit is facing aft, next to the companionway, with back against the bulkhead.
How much breeze will you get from a wind scoop? Nada. Plus, the dodger blocks air.
Turn the boat around and you and your crew, will agree, that it's a "cool" idea.


I use wind scoops also. They work great. bigger the better.
The best "scoop" I have used, is the dink stowed on the foredeck, with a halyard raising the bow. (Forward hatch has to be under the dink. Duh!)
If it rains, lower the dink a bit, and leave the hatch open

Sometimes it's "cool" to think outside the box.
Dodgers drop and biminis give shade.. but.. you take the High road.. I'll stick to the low.
Not keen on eggs so no lessons needed....
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Old 14-03-2016, 11:46   #75
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Re: When to Set a Stern Anchor?

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Main Duck Island in the middle of Lake Ontario. .
That spot outside the harbor is mostly scree and probably the worst holding ground I can think of. I've lost count of the number of boats that have gone up on the shore, or have had to scramble at 3am when the wind clocked around.

I haven't run a stern anchor but a few times, but I have run dual off the bow. As previously noted, you never know what you're actually hooked to- such as a log. I know of one anchorage in the Thousand Islands that is very difficult to anchor, even though it's a mud bottom, because the bottom is littered with arm and leg sized logs.

Another writer told about how two anchors off the bow will keep a boat largely in place, while still facing the wind. This is good if one is anchored in a tight spot and you want to limit travel in a particular direction.

A second anchor has also saved the boat on more than one occasion when another boat dragged and dislodged one anchor. One time it happened I wasn't on the boat, and I'm certain that if not for my second anchor both my boat and the dragging boat would have wound up on the rocks.
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