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Old 12-10-2012, 14:01   #31
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Re: What would you have done?

Don is right about floating lines they just don't work that well when it comes to reversing the engine.

Poly line if it does wrap around your prop shaft can melt really fast even under water. Now there is a serious mess requiring many hours of underwater work.

Have a friend that tangled poly fishing net while motoring in the middle of the pacific high. He was lucky he had two days of calm seas to go over board and cut away the mess. The melted poly even found its way inside his cuttless bearing causing lots of damage.

Keeping your dink at the side of the boat is the only safe way I know to back down while anchoring or taking it out of the water. It only takes a few seconds to tie it off to the side of the boat.
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Old 12-10-2012, 14:04   #32
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Re: What would you have done?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Scuba gear is a great asset to a cruising boat, but for a rope around a prop simple free diving gear a face mask, snorkel and fins with wet/dry suit with weight belt (if cold) are the tools of choice.
I'd definitely agree with that. I'm an avid scuba diver but getting all that crap on and doing so safely is nuts compared to the speed you can get bare-assed and into the water with snorkel and mask.

For bottom cleaning and zincs, I'll do scuba. But for "oh **** I need to get in the water" it's snorkeling gear. Scuba gear is way too big and bulky an you can't realistically store it in an easy-to-to place.
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Old 12-10-2012, 15:02   #33
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Re: What would you have done?

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Originally Posted by Capt Wraun View Post
We have just completed a five day trip up the inside passage of British Columbia. It was a wonderful trip with many sightings of whales and some sea lions, porpoise, etc and went off without a hitch... almost.
We only experienced one problem and that was anchoring on the final night.
Here's the situation and I would like to hear how others would have handled it....

I had originally chosen a different anchorage when planning our trip but when we arrived there at about 16:30 in deteriorating conditions, we found that it was not to our liking.

I decided to go around to the north side of Hanson Island to a very nice looking anchorage (on the chart). It was about a 7nm trip that took about an hour.
We arrived at the new anchorage at about 17:30 and found the best area was occupied by a stray log and I didn't want to risk bumping into it in the middle of the night, so we chose to move over to a smaller corner of the bay.

Our anchor rode is 200' of chain and 100' of rope. Distance from the bow roller to the water is 4' and there was to be a 4' rising tide. Winds forecast for that night were 15 - 20 kt, NW. The charted depth where we anchored was 28' 8" and drops off to 58'.

We put out 250' of rode.

Because of depth, we were forced to anchor fairly close to the rock shoreline and weren't really comfortable doing that but I figured that I would rather be anchored securely, even if it meant being a little too close to the rocks, than anchored out deeper and not having enough scope out to be held securely.

So we anchored and set our alarm. We went below and had dinner and while we ate, the wind started to pick up and daylight faded.

After dinner I thought it would be a good idea to give one more tug test on the anchor, so I went out and did that. All was good, we sprang forward and as I back up again to set the boat near the end of the rode, the painter line fouled the prop. I put it in neutral immediately, then tried jogging it to forward to see if it would free. It did not. So we cut the painter and jumped in the dingy with a knife taped to the boat hook and tried to cut it free. After two hours of unsuccessful attempts at cutting the painter at the prop, I started trying to pull back and forth and it did come free. Yay.

So anyway, for a time, there we were, anchored solidly too close to the rocks but with an alarm set and then suddenly were without the ability to move the boat should the alarm go off. We certainly felt vulnerable at that point and knew that freeing the prop was absolutely top priority.

Thankfully, we were able to get it freed and the forecasted winds did not materialize.

Now having had a brush with disaster and coming out unscathed, I'd like to hear how more experience sailors would have handled it. Please no answers like, I would have more anchor rode and anchor in deeper water. The question is, what would you do in this situation, with the equipment we had to work with?

I'll hang up and listen to your answers

What is your hull number skipper? I have #69. great boats.
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Old 12-10-2012, 15:42   #34
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Re: What would you have done?

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the speed you can get bare-assed and into the water with snorkel and mask.
Up this way, my concern is not how fast I can strip down and get into the water, but with 8C - 10C water temps, it's how fast I can get the job done and get out and warmly dressed again. Long job in the water--properly suited up schnorkel or scuba.
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Old 12-10-2012, 15:47   #35
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Re: What would you have done?

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Originally Posted by S/V_Surya View Post
Here is another scenario if I was in that situation. I would cut the painter and put another new one to secure the dinghy. I would try to remove painter as you did. If not successful I would have no qualms about starting the engine and grinding the old painter up with the spinning prop. Many times during haul out I find many windings of somebodies fishing line wound around the prop shaft.
IMO, this is VERY bad advice! There's a big difference between fishing line and dinghy painters. We have seen engines yanked off their mounts, prop shafts bent, struts ripped out of the hull, transmissions damaged... all from lines wrapped about the prop and large amounts of throttle applied.

The most likely thing that will happen is simply to stall the engine, but all of the above have happened to boats that we have personally seen.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-10-2012, 16:30   #36
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Re: What would you have done?

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I'd definitely agree with that. I'm an avid scuba diver but getting all that crap on and doing so safely is nuts compared to the speed you can get bare-assed and into the water with snorkel and mask.

For bottom cleaning and zincs, I'll do scuba. But for "oh **** I need to get in the water" it's snorkeling gear. Scuba gear is way too big and bulky an you can't realistically store it in an easy-to-to place.
In cold water you'd be hypothermic in about 15 minutes, doesn't seam like a reasonable risk for a single hander. I'd consider it as a last resort if there was someone to pull me out of the water. I had a similar situation to the op a few years ago, same time of year even. I went in the water in one of those summer short wetsuits. After a few minutes it was difficult to hold onto the knife, and it took a lot longer than I had thought it would to get that line cut. I've watched the new years day polar bear swimmers here in Nanaimo and some of them stay in the water for quite a while, I don't know how they do it, or why they'd even want to.
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Old 12-10-2012, 16:47   #37
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Re: What would you have done?

Capt Wraun, I was considering a reply as to what I would do, but there's an added need of information. What is the fetch to windward in these 15-20 knots? What's the holding and bottom configuration at the side of the bay with the least fetch,.....or was the least fetch position your location? It's easy to say that I would have shortened my painter before engaging reverse, but I'll admit to backing over my dinghy painter at one ocassion. It's difficult to imagine what I would choose to do without knowing all the options offered by the geography of the location.
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Old 12-10-2012, 16:54   #38
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Re: What would you have done?

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I've watched the new years day polar bear swimmers here in Nanaimo and some of them stay in the water for quite a while, I don't know how they do it, or why they'd even want to.
Same here--not something I would willingly do--hence my preference for a dry suit for any kind of potentially long job in the water up here. For a short inspection a full length wet suit like the 7mm Henderson is ok.
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Old 12-10-2012, 22:58   #39
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Re: What would you have done?

Yes, the water up there is right off the glaciers. I dove in once and I'm sure I got out faster than I got in. I was much younger then. Since then I have heard of the effects of going in head first into cold water. It can cause a gasp reflex and that will probably kill you. Probably more likely in us older folks.
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Old 12-10-2012, 23:25   #40
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Re: What would you have done?

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Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
In cold water you'd be hypothermic in about 15 minutes, doesn't seam like a reasonable risk for a single hander. I'd consider it as a last resort if there was someone to pull me out of the water. I had a similar situation to the op a few years ago, same time of year even. I went in the water in one of those summer short wetsuits. After a few minutes it was difficult to hold onto the knife, and it took a lot longer than I had thought it would to get that line cut. I've watched the new years day polar bear swimmers here in Nanaimo and some of them stay in the water for quite a while, I don't know how they do it, or why they'd even want to.
There just isn't enough time to put a 7mm fullsuit, hood, booties, gloves, and enough weight to keep it all down if there's anything of an emergency. I suppose you do what you have to do but we're talking about a vessel adrift in a tidal area with no propulsion and rocks nearby. Cold exposure gear (which I've got) is bulky and not quick to put on.

And the weights. With all that crap on you'll need ~30 pounds to drop you down. That's a lot of gear to keep quick on the ready.
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:10   #41
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Re: What would you have done?

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There just isn't enough time to put a 7mm fullsuit, hood, booties, gloves, and enough weight to keep it all down if there's anything of an emergency. I suppose you do what you have to do but we're talking about a vessel adrift in a tidal area with no propulsion and rocks nearby. Cold exposure gear (which I've got) is bulky and not quick to put on.

And the weights. With all that crap on you'll need ~30 pounds to drop you down. That's a lot of gear to keep quick on the ready.
A surfing style wetsuit might be a reasonable, less expensive alternative.
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:37   #42
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Re: What would you have done?

I think every situation is going to be different. There may or may not be a time pressure problem.
As Rebel Heart says getting into a 7mm wet suit is a slow process, but if there is no urgency why not it will add to comfort as well as safety.

I think the main thing is to have all the tools and knowledge how to use them.

I have found freeing a rope around the prop is generally quite quick from under the water, but that is certainly not always the case, especially with nets.A friend of mine spent 2 hours with full scuba gear clearing a net from around his 2 props (on a cat). He is a scuba instructor so I doubt many people could have managed it quicker.

The message is you may need to be adaptable.

As a final note beware of currents (if the boat is fixed by the rope or anchor) or drift. Even a small current that may have been unnoticed sailing can be very difficult to swim against. MOB is much more serious if the boats propulsion and manoeuvrability is compromised.
Before you jump in the water away from shore think about this warning carefully. Fins can be a big help. Some people use a rope, but there is risk this can trap you underwater.
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:40   #43
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Re: What would you have done?

1) From the deck, rocks may seem closer than they really are.

2) Why not drop the anchor in deep water and then use a shore line from the bow???

b.
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Old 13-10-2012, 14:37   #44
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Re: What would you have done?

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A friend of mine spent 2 hours with full scuba gear clearing a net from around his 2 props (on a cat).
That's because monos are safer.
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Old 13-10-2012, 15:04   #45
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Originally Posted by Capt Wraun
haha, the next day when we were discussing the situation and what we should take from it, we agreed that the acquisition of diving gear should be moved up on the priority list of things to buy for the boat.
Yea, diving gear at the ready is my suggestion when you do something like that......of course I'm in Florida or south and like to dive on my anchor when possible and sometimes bring up dinner :devil
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