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Old 03-10-2013, 19:22   #16
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Re: What would you do,

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Originally Posted by Wraith_Mac View Post
Keen eye there Mr B, Not many people outside this area seem to have noticed this regular little weather feature.
We've had some ripper twisters come ashore here at Norah Head and take a few roofs off. It ain't even Kansas Toto!
Kills the sailing/fishing but even worse screws up the golf on a Saturday.
Local knowledge helps I think but no long term predictions possible, they seem to build very quickly from a nuisance wind warning to "Oh *****".
That 65hp on our dive boat is there for a good reason. Get home quick.

We have a lot of weird eddies and water temperature changes here close to the coast, look at your soundings for the Norah Head general area, may explain some of it.

I prefer to avoid seas like you mention but like you lads down south, you learn to live with them.

Damned exhilarating actually.

Cheers,
Mac
That was a nasty little sucker that blew through the CC yesterday. I was at Budgie at the time. It edged on monsoonal at one point.
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Old 03-10-2013, 22:18   #17
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Re: What would you do,

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So youre going to run with it? What is the point of the question then? Every good yachtsman knows to run with a storm.
I am still learning to sail,,

I want to know what other people would do in the same conditions, You learn by asking, Even the stupid questions need an answer,

My motor boat experience, Doesnt cover wind propulsion, and the extreme low transom with the motor attached, does not allow following seas, You will sink if a following wave hits the boat from the rear,
I have sunk a motor boat on the ramp due to following 2 metre waves, Right beside a 60 foot yacht that was up on the rocks due to the weather,, 13 boats sank that day in the bay,

Port Phillip Bay can be a very dangerous place if your not extremely carefull,

I have had to reevaluate my boating skills with a sailing vessel, They do have big differences,

Motor boat, No following seas, you will sink,

Sail boat, Nothing on the nose, It batters my boat, Horribly,
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Old 03-10-2013, 22:58   #18
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Re: What would you do,

The last couple of weeks here in Melbourne, Going out in a boat of any kind. Would be near suicidal,

The weather coming up from the Antartic, gets squeezed between Tassie and South Australia, and rips into Bass Straight, and we cop it full force here in Victoria,

Bad weather is par for the course here, Usually 3 or 4 days straight, It rips out big trees, so sailing or motoring is definately out for a few days till it settles down,

We also have five different definate seasons in a day here,

Radio Jockey in Frankston, I have the latest weather report here, It going to be a lovely day with plenty of sunshine and no wind,

Radio Jockey, I am looking out my window across Port Phillip Bay, It is Bucketting down, The trees are almost sideways, Visibility is almost nil, Where do they get their weather reports from, They need a window in their building, Duhhhh,

Last 40 years I have snow skied at Mt Buller, Its a day trip, Its a 3 hour drive both ways,
and I get to Ski for 7 hours, Its a long tiring day, 14 hours all up in a day, I drive both ways,

Now to get a good days skiing in, It has to be no wind and no white outs,
So the BOM comes in, I study the weather charts they put out, I have to predict what the weather is going to be like if I want a good days skiing,

Windy, No lifts, White out, no skiing, sopping wet and freezing cold, Our snow is wet and sloppy,
So to avoid wasting $300-00 or so dollars for nothing, I study and predict the weather diligently. I am pretty good at it, If I may say so myself, Very rare for me to get a Dud days skiing,

I put the same skill set to use on my Boats, But some times. I am Human, I get it wrong, Big deal,
Its called experience when you fail, Make sure it doesnt happen again,
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Old 03-10-2013, 23:05   #19
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Re: What would you do,

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That was a nasty little sucker that blew through the CC yesterday. I was at Budgie at the time. It edged on monsoonal at one point.
Hi there Ozskipper,
Yes it was, hail and all things elemental crashed down here for a while.
Kids loved it, seems all kids love hail.
I went to sleep as work on the car stopped dead.
All hot and blue sky today though, goi8ng to be a hot summer I think.
Anyway if you're going to get caught up Budgewoi is a pretty nice place to linger.
Cheers,
Mac
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Old 03-10-2013, 23:46   #20
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Re: What would you do,

Mr. B,
I don't find anything wrong with 'hypotheticals' and made/make extensive use of them when teaching/coaching anything.
I understood your question to be 'hypothetical'.
Used to love the Geoffrey Robertson TV shows of a similar name and nature.
Mr. B,
"We also have five different definite seasons in a day here"
I can attest to that as a fact, cost us [I was a caddy] the Australian Amateur Golf Title one year that damned 24hr cycle, so well known locally.
Day One
First half field AM: Sunny and benign, perfect golf weather.
Second half [us incl] PM: Arctic Gale, ffffreeezing horizontal rain. Greens squeegeed.
Day 2
First half field AM [us]: Antarctic Gale continues, greens squeegeed.
Second half field PM: Rain stops dead just before Vic team tees off, sunny skies, perfect conditions, Victorian team shoots the lights out, sneaks home the champs.
Same through the matchplay, the home team didn't even carry wet weather gear.
Talk about local knowledge!! LOL
I'll settle for our local conditions any time, as Ozsailor said we can get wet but it's not so blasted COLD.
Done a few stints at Talbingo many years ago, you can keep your snow and icy roads as well. LOL [pay was good though]
Cheers,
Mac
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Old 04-10-2013, 00:37   #21
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Re: What would you do,

Mr B just a faint memory from ??? 30 years ago I can remember the big cat I think it was called Lion Brewery it had a big lions head on the sails anyway it hit weather like this crossing the Bight ( I think it was one of the first round the world races) they had to tow a tractor tyre to slow them down enough to control the boat. They passed us west of Kangaroo Island and they were sending up rooster tails Yaaaahoo would have loved to be on board then Just memories Jacko
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:21   #22
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Re: What would you do,

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Mr B just a faint memory from ??? 30 years ago I can remember the big cat I think it was called Lion Brewery it had a big lions head on the sails anyway it hit weather like this crossing the Bight ( I think it was one of the first round the world races) they had to tow a tractor tyre to slow them down enough to control the boat. They passed us west of Kangaroo Island and they were sending up rooster tails Yaaaahoo would have loved to be on board then Just memories Jacko
Would that be the '85-'86 Whitbread with Peter Blake as skipper on Lion New Zealand?
The sponsor was Lion Breweries, next race they changed the name to Steinlager, different emblem, same Brewery I think.
Cheers,
Mac
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:23   #23
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Re: What would you do,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith_Mac View Post
Mr. B,
I don't find anything wrong with 'hypotheticals' and made/make extensive use of them when teaching/coaching anything.
I understood your question to be 'hypothetical'.
Used to love the Geoffrey Robertson TV shows of a similar name and nature.
Mr. B,
"We also have five different definite seasons in a day here"
I can attest to that as a fact, cost us [I was a caddy] the Australian Amateur Golf Title one year that damned 24hr cycle, so well known locally.
Day One
First half field AM: Sunny and benign, perfect golf weather.
Second half [us incl] PM: Arctic Gale, ffffreeezing horizontal rain. Greens squeegeed.
Day 2
First half field AM [us]: Antarctic Gale continues, greens squeegeed.
Second half field PM: Rain stops dead just before Vic team tees off, sunny skies, perfect conditions, Victorian team shoots the lights out, sneaks home the champs.
Same through the matchplay, the home team didn't even carry wet weather gear.
Talk about local knowledge!! LOL
I'll settle for our local conditions any time, as Ozsailor said we can get wet but it's not so blasted COLD.
Done a few stints at Talbingo many years ago, you can keep your snow and icy roads as well. LOL [pay was good though]
Cheers,
Mac
Yep, Thats our weather, Hahahahaha
But we have the Freezing Bitter Cold as well, Its like razor Blades, It cuts straight thru you, Thats why I got my boat with a fully enclosed cockpit, Sailing here in winter is not fun out in an open cockpit,
,
Snow on the roads you can see, Not a problem, Stay off it,

Black Ice, and lightning, Nothing you can do about it, Lap of the Gods stuff,
On the Bike, Just keep it straight and upright and hope you get to the other side with out hitting the deck, Hahahaha

I am migrating up north soon permanently, Im getting too old for the cold, -4C
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:36   #24
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Re: What would you do,

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Mr B just a faint memory from ??? 30 years ago I can remember the big cat I think it was called Lion Brewery it had a big lions head on the sails anyway it hit weather like this crossing the Bight ( I think it was one of the first round the world races) they had to tow a tractor tyre to slow them down enough to control the boat. They passed us west of Kangaroo Island and they were sending up rooster tails Yaaaahoo would have loved to be on board then Just memories Jacko
I would have loved to have been on that one too, Not as crew tho, My sailing knowledge is not up to that, Helper maybe, or just as a passenger,

I love the Adrenilin Rush when the boat gets up and starts flying, You can feel the power in the sails, The rush of the water on the sides, And all is good in the world, Speed, I love it,

I would like to have the knowledge to push mine to the limits, But the cost is a very real limiting factor, Breaking it, Or flipping it over, Is just not in the equasion, Hahahaha

Look up Orange 3, Thats a RTW record holder, That thing flys,
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:42   #25
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Re: What would you do,

Hi Mr B.
I have an old saying for myself. Better to ask the idiot question then be one. I have always found that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It is far more idiotic not to ask for help if you do not know something in my opinion. From your post it appears that the picture is from the BOM (Bureau of Meterology) here in Oz. Looking closely at the map you can see that while there is certainly at deep low well south of the bight the seas are quite moderate for quite some distance offshore with the breezes also quite moderate. I do not know if you are aware but there is a 4-5 day repeating time frame that can accessed through the same mapping system which shows the predicted path of the weather patterns. The BOM mapping system in this section (interactive maps) also has a tab for sea and swell combined as well as separately, temperature, wind etc. It is an excellent tool for planning a trip offshore. I have found it particularly accurate but one must always consider a localised weather incident. I guess that's why the BOM always states that the wind may be 40% precent higher and waves twice as big then predicted


Greg and Sue
Southerly Miss
Lake Macquarie
Oz
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:15   #26
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Re: What would you do,

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Hi Mr B.
I have an old saying for myself. Better to ask the idiot question then be one. I have always found that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It is far more idiotic not to ask for help if you do not know something in my opinion. From your post it appears that the picture is from the BOM (Bureau of Meterology) here in Oz. Looking closely at the map you can see that while there is certainly at deep low well south of the bight the seas are quite moderate for quite some distance offshore with the breezes also quite moderate. I do not know if you are aware but there is a 4-5 day repeating time frame that can accessed through the same mapping system which shows the predicted path of the weather patterns. The BOM mapping system in this section (interactive maps) also has a tab for sea and swell combined as well as separately, temperature, wind etc. It is an excellent tool for planning a trip offshore. I have found it particularly accurate but one must always consider a localised weather incident. I guess that's why the BOM always states that the wind may be 40% precent higher and waves twice as big then predicted


Greg and Sue
Southerly Miss
Lake Macquarie
Oz
Its Certainly BOM, Its got the lot, Click on local charts also, Im in Melbourne, So they put it on TV for me and you every night,

We get from the Indian Ocean to New Zealand on ours, and the very top tip of Antartica,

They do give wave heights for Port Phillip and Western Port Bays,

A lot of the entrances along the east coast now have live cams operating,

I motored into Forster at 2-00 AM from a Howling Gale and 4 metre waves on the nose,,

on a full out going tide, Then parked at the fishermans wharf, All in the dark, I felt that was quite an achievement on my part, I was only doing about 2 or 3 knots in the channel, The diesel was flat stick, If it stopped. I was history,

I had about 3/4 throttle going while I tied up to the wharfe, You could surf on that tide flow,

I was losing the lot of my Davits, Dinghy, Solar Panels, Hammock and Sunshade, Probably would have ripped off my wind generator too as it went, Backstay for my mast, Not that it would have fallen down,

WOW, Now that opens a Frightening can of worms for me, Thinking about it,
My Backstay cable is woven 5/16 soft plastic rope, The top quality yachty Stuff, It takes a lot to break it,
I was assuming it would snap off under a load like that going over the rear of the boat, and the drag would be tremendous,
In Screaming winds and heavy seas, If it didnt snap off, The Backstay, What would be the results,
The resultant drag and the strain through the top of the mast, The leverage would be mind boggling,
The boat could sail out from under the mast, With the transoms going under as the boat stands up vertically, Once the backstay has gone, Its totally out of reach to cut,
or
It would drag on the top of the mast and drag the boat over side ways, Beam on and on its side, Its good night Jack in both cases,
Safety rope that releases the back stay if it gets pulled hard enough, Another Cure Fixed,

The damage from the steel cables dragging over the side, If it let go, could have done lots of damage, I had it all roped off to other parts of the boat to keep it there, But it wasnt going to last long before it was gone,
I did have a four foot pair of bolt cutters handy if it did let go, Just cut it off,

I am more than aware, That once that rig let go, and hit the ocean, It was going to be all over in seconds, I had to be able to move more than really fast to save my bacon, And cut it free,

I did try for Port Macquarie, First, But missed it by 12 miles and could not go north again,

The weather was unbelievable, My guess was 4 to five metres, And an extremely messy chop, Chucked in, My eye balls are two metres above the waterline when its stationary, And the wind was screaming its head off,

I had no choice but to get into the closest Port for repairs, So Forster was the only choice I had,
The VRS did an excellent job of directing me into the Port, I would not and could not have done it with out him,
Nice and easy trip out of the Port through the channel and back out to sea in the daytime,
Followed by a Policeman on a skidoo all the way, Lucky we had our Life Jackets on, Big Fines now for not wearing them crossing bars,

Forty miles out and going south in 4 metre waves also going south and with a tail wind, Magic, Not a care in the world, Bliss, Out of radio contact, Even more Bliss, about 12 knots with only the Genoa up, Just putting along, Just comfortable sailing, No Stress on any thing, I will be home in about 7 Days, Thats the part I liked, Ive been on this boat now full time for nearly 3 months, crossed 3 oceans, Seen Some, Very Large Waves.
There isnt much left on this boat that hasnt broken so far on this trip,, Hahahaha, What else is going to **** itself, Before I get home,

Also resigned to the fact, that my passenger was never going to recover from seasickness,
For six days straight.
Made it easier for me to concentrate on my sailing, She's just not a Sailoress. Sigh,
Such is life, I still get a laugh out of it,
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:10   #27
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Re: What would you do,

For those of you have might try open blue water here is a Noaa buoy site world wide that I find informative especially when tracking a storm. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/.

So I take it if power bow into the storm/wave, and if sail to run with the storm and take the strom/waves on the stern? I would think either power or sail it would be better to take the storm/waves on the bow.
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Old 04-10-2013, 16:27   #28
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Re: What would you do,

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Would that be the '85-'86 Whitbread with Peter Blake as skipper on Lion New Zealand?
The sponsor was Lion Breweries, next race they changed the name to Steinlager, different emblem, same Brewery I think.
Cheers,
Mac
Hi Mac that's it 85/86 Whitbread Boy Peter Blake and his team could handle any weather and make that boat sing and in those days there was no "call up the Chopper Im scared" I just love those "men" in big boats but times change and now we have the girls who can do it just as well !!!!!!
Cheers Jacko
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Old 04-10-2013, 18:45   #29
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Re: What would you do,

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Originally Posted by rw58ph View Post
For those of you have might try open blue water here is a Noaa buoy site world wide that I find informative especially when tracking a storm. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/.

So I take it if power bow into the storm/wave, and if sail to run with the storm and take the strom/waves on the stern? I would think either power or sail it would be better to take the storm/waves on the bow.
A sail boat is just that, A sail boat, It does not have a thumping big motor to power over the waves head on, So it just has to run in front of the storm, or let the storm pass under neath your boat, Depending on the waves,

A lot of the power boats Ive been in, A foot wave over the stern and your sinking fast, Its head on into the waves at all times, Power the boat out of the water, No Probs, But head on only when not under power,
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:02   #30
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Re: What would you do,

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Hi Mac that's it 85/86 Whitbread Boy Peter Blake and his team could handle any weather and make that boat sing and in those days there was no "call up the Chopper Im scared" I just love those "men" in big boats but times change and now we have the girls who can do it just as well !!!!!!
Cheers Jacko
I used to love those RTW Mono's that did the Southern Ocean crossing, Single handed, That Pommy got rolled over and had to be saved from his inverted boat, in one attempt, Bolger I think his name was,

Those big Tri's and Multi's That were going for the fastest RTW records,

We are not sailing today, The waves are too big and the wind is too strong, We will just park behind this convenient Island till it blows over,
There is not many Islands in the Southern Ocean,

My Eldest Daughter is a crew member on the Melbourne to Hobart west coaster on Boxing day, Done it for a few years, Loves it, Mono's,

She's not impressed that I sail a Cat,
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