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Old 31-08-2012, 08:57   #16
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

I would do yes, yes, and no. I agree with a prior description that it is part of the life. But for others that say yes to three, thanks if it was my boat because I don't want to be the cause for your lack of sleep and am embarrassed for having left the boat that way. Unfortunately, there are soo many others that don't share the feeling of embarrassment or feel the sense of personal responsibility. They may deserve the intrusion for you to fix theirs but technically you are breaking laws and rules to board them without their permission. The first two I'd be taking my chances but know with the "gut check" that I'm doing the right thing...
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Old 31-08-2012, 09:08   #17
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

I tend to think more towards the practical side of things asking myself 'would i want someone to sort this for me if the roles were reversed?'

Getting sprung in the middle of any action can be difficult,but boarding a deaf forum members boat who has just finished reading post 697 of a pirate thread is not going to be pretty.

If litigation is the consequence, should i incorrectly resolve someones problem in their absence then i guess i'll deal with it. I don't like the argument often put forward regarding 'do nothing cos you will be sued!'

Smacks of being politicly correct.....
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Old 31-08-2012, 09:19   #18
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

In a marina where I lived years ago, another liveaboard would call me during a storm and say, "Should we do rounds?"

We'd don our foulies and meet at E Dock, working our way back to A Dock and checking every boat. As a general rule, every fifth or sixth boat would need the dock lines snugged up, or a sail cover retied, et cetera. And yes, halyards sometimes needed taming. And the yacht club's shore boats would almost always need to have their bilge pumps switched on.

Nobody ever complained.
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Old 31-08-2012, 09:38   #19
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

Yes, yes, and yes.

And I'll add, yes to investigating suspicions of fire, taking on water, leaking fuel or other unusual substances, sails flogging to destruction, dinghy absconding, animals dying, vandals, thieves, and sights or sounds of distress such as screaming in fear or pain, small arms fire, explosions, etc. Judgement call as to whether or not to leave behind contact details. If opportune, enlist or notify bystanders, notify relevant authorities.

Am I my neighbour's keeper? Yes; this is not prison where DTA rules. Or is it? Political correctness is the death of freedom and intelligence. Busybody? No, there are nuances and discernment is called for. Present me with merely a video of my boat dying unassisted and the excuse "I was frightened you'd sue me" and I may give other cause to fear/hate me, beginning with comprehensive verbal assessment of character or lack thereof. Sue me for saving your boat and I'll fix my mistake. What a sick world, if such things need to be discussed? Thanks for raising the issue, though, Frank.
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Old 31-08-2012, 09:43   #20
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Yes, yes, depends! If I know the owner sure if not I would discuss with others and ask them to go with me. As a former dockmaster , I had permission per contact to board any boat I felt was in need or danger. Of course I would knock first plus I knew my customers! Still was embarrassed in a couple of occasions! ( so were they!)
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Old 31-08-2012, 09:58   #21
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

On #2 let me add an addendum and see if it changes anything.

In addition to being 2am with storm surge... The boat you're attempting to secure has destroyed lines on the side it needs to be secured on. The lines are no longer usable. You have no spare lines and getting on your boat is dangerous. You don't have a PFD available because its on your boat and you got off earlier.

(Alternatively - Do you even try to exit your vessel in these conditions?)

The wind is blowing 60mph and the boats are hobby horsing wildly. Walking down the finger piers puts you in waist deep water being hit by waves. The piling you need to secure the boat to is to windward about 5 feet away from the stern of the vessel. And it is raining. Horizontal storm driven rain.

You initially attempt to get to his anchor rode to make up new lines since you can get to the deck plates, but you cannot pull it out due to whatever problem below. The boat bashes you in the chest as you try to pull his rode out. As you're working on trying to find a solution it begins to lightening around you.

There are at least 4 other boats on the same pier that need help.

Do you continue?
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:21   #22
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Ok lets get some points of view on the following.

1) A boat is on anchor in a building storm, the owners were seen leaving by car earlier, the chain has ridden over the bow roller and is slowly destroying the Mahogany Topsides and rails, you are going by in your RIB and you have the ability to board and get the chain back on roller and tie it off.

DO YOU?

2) You are in a Marina, it is 2am, there is no security here, you liveaboard and a surge has started running through the pens. The boat next to you is very loosely tied it starts rearing, bouncing off the edges of the concrete pontoons.

Damage is getting worse and the surge is not going away, you have the ability to re-tie the boat so damage to the Marina and boat is minimalised.

DO YOU?

3) The boat next to you has a halyard that's loose, the owner is away you are trying to sleep it's driving you nuts, the end of the halyard has a headboard shackle attached it's clanging badly, you want to clip the halyard shackle to anything and put some tension on it.

DO YOU?

All three things occurred recently to me and i acted in my own way, i have noted the comments regarding ISSAC and legalities that seem to be in place in America. Just interested in responses. Cheers

First of all, don't assume that because one person has a concern, that that concern actually reflects law here.

Second of all, since you're a live-aboard, you know your neighbors. You can gauge whether they would welcome your assistance or not. I have neighbors I would do such things for, but two of them (one moved out voluntarily and the other was kicked out) who were so difficult to get along with that I would not step foot on their boat unless their boat was endangering mine, and I would take pictures, have a witness, do everything I could do.

Because no matter what the law *says* in this country, people can and do bring frivolous lawsuits all the time. While the other person undoubtedly would lose, I would still be out the considerable cost of defending myself against a frivolous lawsuit.

I would also consider my own personal safety. Anchor rode chain under strain in the wrong place is dangerous to one's fingers. I would want to figure out a way -- a crow bar, for instance -- that would protect my fingers.

We do have Good Samaritan laws in this country. I don't know if it includes protecting property or only lives, but, for instance, even if you're an MD and screw up helping someone at an accident scene, you're protected. Maybe the light was bad, you didn't have everything you did, etc. The law assumes that you did the best you could in the circumstances.
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:22   #23
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

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first thing i do is check the flag! many americans carry guns just for that reason,to stop people boarding their boat un-announced!!!!!

otherwise once i have decided im not gonna get shot i would not hesitate to sort out some ones boat that i know.

if it is a boat that i do not know the owners,i will generally ask a nearby vessel if they will assist as well,then their is no question about your intentions when boarding some ones boat!

But he didn't say he was going to board a boat unannounced. The clear assumption (stated in one example) is that the boats were untended at the time.
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:27   #24
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

Protection of personel is always more important than protection of property. It is not sensible to take a significant risk of serious injury for the sake of property. Including my property. That is what insurance companies are for.

In these sort of situations it's beneficial to try and do the most good. Save the boats that would suffer serious damage, but can be protected with simple steps first. Then move to the more difficult cases with less benefit. Do the most good with the available time / resources. The concept is similar to triage in medicine.

However, in practice, often personal connections mean you would be more inclined to help friends, than too necessarily distribute resources in the optimum manner.
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:43   #25
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
Yes to the first 2
For #3 I always send Ana in a bikini
I have just loosened my halyards. Please, send Ana.
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:59   #26
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

1. If it was safe for me to do so, maybe.

2. Deffinately, as i'd hope someone else would do it for me as well and indeed I have done this in the past.

3. MOST Deffinately (in a marina of course).
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:11   #27
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

1. Yes
2 (extended version). Yes, including using some of my own equipment, until it becomes unsafe for me or for my boat. First me, then other people, then my boat, then other people's boats.
3. Yes, usually, more dependent on circumstances than 1 and 2.
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:26   #28
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Protection of personel is always more important than protection of property. It is not sensible to take a significant risk of serious injury for the sake of property. Including my property. That is what insurance companies are for.

In these sort of situations it's beneficial to try and do the most good. Save the boats that would suffer serious damage, but can be protected with simple steps first. Then move to the more difficult cases with less benefit. Do the most good with the available time / resources. The concept is similar to triage in medicine.

However, in practice, often personal connections mean you would be more inclined to help friends, than too necessarily distribute resources in the optimum manner.

Sure. That's what makes what this group did for "Cap'n Jay" so remarkable, because no one here even knew him.

Someone else with a similar-sized boat went aground on rocks. He should have known better too, and should have had his boat better secured, but he had ... friends with the skills to help. They had his boat off the rocks and secured in the water before Debby had passed.
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Old 31-08-2012, 13:20   #29
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

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But he didn't say he was going to board a boat unannounced. The clear assumption (stated in one example) is that the boats were untended at the time.
ya never know with old nam vets,some of them lay booby traps
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Old 31-08-2012, 13:24   #30
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Re: What Level Of Assistance Is Acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
On #2 let me add an addendum and see if it changes anything.

In addition to being 2am with storm surge... The boat you're attempting to secure has destroyed lines on the side it needs to be secured on. The lines are no longer usable. You have no spare lines and getting on your boat is dangerous. You don't have a PFD available because its on your boat and you got off earlier.

(Alternatively - Do you even try to exit your vessel in these conditions?)

The wind is blowing 60mph and the boats are hobby horsing wildly. Walking down the finger piers puts you in waist deep water being hit by waves. The piling you need to secure the boat to is to windward about 5 feet away from the stern of the vessel. And it is raining. Horizontal storm driven rain.

You initially attempt to get to his anchor rode to make up new lines since you can get to the deck plates, but you cannot pull it out due to whatever problem below. The boat bashes you in the chest as you try to pull his rode out. As you're working on trying to find a solution it begins to lightening around you.

There are at least 4 other boats on the same pier that need help.

Do you continue?
thats where common sense comes into play involving personal injury!

in your case your neighbour had just as much warning as you did to get his boat secured,if he doesnt give a sh1t why should you
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