Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-11-2014, 21:11   #241
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
No, the Oz coast guard would not do so... 'cause there ain't no Aussie CG! And it wasn't the CG who responded, but a rescue service which was part of the Queensland gov emergency services. They deal with all sorts of disaster responses, including these sorts of medevacs as well as the frequent floods, bushfires and other catastrophes that Oz is so good at! At the end of the short ride to the hospital (I was allowed to come along) I asked how I should pay for the rescue. They asked if we had travel insurance, and we didn't. They said "OK, it's our shout". How cool! But later I found that our US health insurance covered such expenses, and they were duly compensated. IIRC it was about four thousand AUD...

So, here is a case where no official emergency was declared by either Pan or Mayday, but the responders treated it with the same dispatch as if it had been duly christened a Mayday. Frankly, it never occurred to me to say the magic phrase. I hadn't expected such a quick or professional reaction, and was expecting to have to sail to Cairns, a 3+hour trip, and was only trying to find where the closest facility was. My general idea was that an ambulance could be alerted to meet us at the main marina. I was surely grateful for the helo for it was cllear that Ann was in dire straits. I didn't realize that it was as life-threatening as it was. Had it happened far out to sea I doubt if she would be with us today. Damn scary...

And had it been far out at sea, I don't know what radio procedure I would have followed. I probably would have tried the VHF with an all-ships plea, quite possibly prefixed by Mayday... I dunno, and I would not have worried about the niceties of procedure... nor would I today. If some hard nosed bureaucrat later had me over the coals, so be it. If that had failed, then I would have used the HF radio to a coastal station or to a ham operator. I have acted as relay on medical emergencies for others while at sea. It is cumbersome and slow, but the hams come through in the end. Oh... before someone jumps on the GMDSS bandwagon, remember that this was in Australian waters about a decade ago and the system was (and is) not widely used here. I realize that nowadays a GMDSS call would be a good thing to try.

This attitude may offend sea going professionals, and perhaps it does not adhere to the detailed letter of the law, but then I'm not a professional and my wife's life is more important to me than correct nomenclature.

Cheers,

Jim
yes, I'm with ya on this. "You do what you need to do to get the help you need".

I was not going to remark on the CG bit, because I thought it irrelevant.

Hey, how about letting me know when your down in Tassie so we can catch up? Are you coming to the Tamar?
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2014, 23:09   #242
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,811
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
No, the Oz coast guard would not do so... 'cause there ain't no Aussie CG!
No Aussie CG?
We have the Australian Volunteer Coast Guard Association, and they have been doing a brilliant job for over five decades now.

All members are volunteers. Some have put in decades of service. Some have paid the ultimate price.

Stations are also manned by volunteers. I remember Joy Croft in Loch Sport kept up a watch for several decades, issuing weather reports several times daily and having a vital role in rescues both on the Gippsland Lakes and Bass Strait. Particularly in the pre mobile phone days, it was a real comfort knowing she was there 24/7.

For all those cruising in Aussie waters, dig deep and donate .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	43.7 KB
ID:	91937  
__________________

__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 00:00   #243
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
No Aussie CG?
We have the Australian Volunteer Coast Guard Association, and they have been doing a brilliant job for over five decades now.

All members are volunteers. Some have put in decades of service. Some have paid the ultimate price.

Stations are also manned by volunteers. I remember Joy Croft in Loch Sport kept up a watch for several decades, issuing weather reports several times daily and having a vital role in rescues both on the Gippsland Lakes and Bass Strait. Particularly in the pre mobile phone days, it was a real comfort knowing she was there 24/7.

For all those cruising in Aussie waters, dig deep and donate .
Tamar Sea Rescue and Coast Melbourne Radio are brilliant. Keep an eye on me whenever I'm out in Bass Strait.

But I would hardly call them a Coast Guard in the same manner as other Coast Guards. State Police look after off shore needs to the limit and the Navy beyond.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 00:58   #244
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,811
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Tamar Sea Rescue and Coast Melbourne Radio are brilliant. Keep an eye on me whenever I'm out in Bass Strait.

But I would hardly call them a Coast Guard in the same manner as other Coast Guards. State Police look after off shore needs to the limit and the Navy beyond.
Well they are not armed and not stopping and interrogating cruisers. That may make them less real in some eyes .

They do, however, conduct rescues and medivacs, and have risked (and lost) their lives in sea rescues and would probably be pretty pissed off that boaters "would hardly call them a Coast Guard".
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 01:05   #245
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,711
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

RC: But I would hardly call them a Coast Guard in the same manner as other Coast Guards

SWL: They do, however, conduct rescues and medivacs, and have risked (and lost) their lives in sea rescues and would probably be pretty pissed off that boaters "would hardly call them a Coast Guard".

It would probably have been better if RC said "US Coast Guard" rather than the generic "other Coast Guards".
__________________
StuM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 01:10   #246
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Well they are not armed and not stopping and interrogating cruisers. That may make them less real in some eyes .

They do, however, conduct rescues and medivacs, and have risked (and lost) their lives in sea rescues and would probably be pretty pissed off that boaters "would hardly call them a Coast Guard".
Hey, stick with accurately quoting me if your going to criticise me?
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 01:11   #247
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
RC: But I would hardly call them a Coast Guard in the same manner as other Coast Guards

SWL: They do, however, conduct rescues and medivacs, and have risked (and lost) their lives in sea rescues and would probably be pretty pissed off that boaters "would hardly call them a Coast Guard".

It would probably have been better if RC said "US Coast Guard" rather than the generic "other Coast Guards".
Thank you Stu.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 01:45   #248
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Hey SWL, I was not denigrating the volunteer CG or any of the other Aussie VMRs. But really, you can't compare their abilities, equipment,manpower, training and 24/7/365 guard duties with the US or Canadian CGs.

You know as well as I that when a call out pops up, the VMRs don't have a helicopter spooling up quick time, a C-130 to drop pumps and liferafts to mariners in strife or sea going cutters at sea or ready to go to sea and so on. They do a good job with what they have, and many of the volunteers are quite skilled, but there is no direct comparison with the pros.

The good thing is that they don't have to share their attention with drug interdiction or guard duty for cruise ships or policing aquatic events... all things that distract the USCG from their original focus. And no, they are not armed and most do not wear combat boots when they come aboard your vessel!

So, I hope we can have peace, good lady, and recognize the differences between the services.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 02:00   #249
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,948
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

It is a bit of a mish-mash in Australia Coast guards in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I did hear once that the 1961 split was due to an inhouse bunfight over what uniforms they should be wearing....
El Pinguino is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 02:05   #250
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
According to what I read, in Australia, it's not simply a recommendation that medical emergencies are not maydays, it's law. At least for Australian registered boats. It's quite specific that nothing related to a person is a mayday-- only vessels.......
J6, let's clear up this point about Aussie law.

There is NO law in Australia that says medical emergencies are not MAYDAYs. At least, there is no law that I'm aware of but if you can cite one, I would be very interested in knowing about it.

To the best of my knowledge, the use of a radio to call for help (of any kind) is governed the Radio Communications Act 1992. I reread it again last night and could find no reference in it stating that a MAYDAY can't include a medical emergency.

Perhaps I have missed a minor paragraph here or there or perhaps one of the many maritime acts says something to that effect somewhere - but I don't think so.

However, we are taught here in Aussieland when studying for a maritime radio licence, that MAYDAYs are not to be used for medical calls. This is laid out in several recommended handbooks. The fact this is so in the handbook doesn't make it law, it just makes it recommended (perhaps even highly recommended).

I'm not sure why it is so but I am sure no one is going to be hauled over the coals for doing so - except perhaps in that great international maritime court called "Cruisers Forum"
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 02:40   #251
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Here is what the Canadians say:

5.2.2 Distress Signal
In radiotelephony, the spoken word for distress is "MAYDAY", and it should be used at the commencement of the first distress communication.

The distress signal indicates that a person or station sending the signal is:

threatened by grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance, or
aware that an aircraft, ship, other station or person is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.

here is the link

RIC-22 — General Radiotelephone Operating Procedures - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications

I believe the wording "grave and imminent danger" are the operative ones. So suspecting a burst appendix, if off-shore would constitute "grave" but perhaps not imminent danger.

A broken leg is normally neither "grave" nor "imminent"

Pan-pan

6. Urgency Communications

6.1 Urgency Signal
The urgency signal indicates that the station calling has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a station or a person, but does not require immediate assistance and shall only be sent on the authority of the person in charge of the station.

The urgency signal is "PAN PAN" spoken three times. It should be used at the beginning of the first communication.

The urgency signal and the urgency message may be addressed to all stations or to a specific station.
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 02:52   #252
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Here is what the Canadians say:
...........
Pan-pan

6. Urgency Communications

6.1 Urgency Signal
The urgency signal indicates that the station calling has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a station or a person, but does not require immediate assistance and shall only be sent on the authority of the person in charge of the station.

The urgency signal is "PAN PAN" spoken three times. It should be used at the beginning of the first communication.
........
Just curious, do the Canadians pronounce PAN PAN like the Americans (rhythms with "on") or like Australians (and presumably the British) - rhythms with "an"?
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 06:06   #253
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Just curious, do the Canadians pronounce PAN PAN like the Americans (rhythms with "on") or like Australians (and presumably the British) - rhythms with "an"?
damned if I know - maybe we should ask a canadian?
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 06:09   #254
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,182
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Out here in Newfoundland it might go something like

Poin Poin
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2014, 13:39   #255
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
damned if I know - maybe we should ask a canadian?
Fair call
FWIW, I quoted you as your post (251) as you started off with "Here is what the Canadians say" so I thought you may also have knowledge on how Canadians pronounce the related stuff.

Presumably you are more familiar with Danish pronunciation so how do the Danish pronounce PAN PAN?

And are there any Canadians still on board this wandering thread and would care to enlighten me on their pronunciation of this slightly drifted topic?
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mayday Mayday Mayday boatman61 Monohull Sailboats 456 11-02-2011 18:29



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.