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Old 16-11-2014, 15:29   #151
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
Sorry Wot

PAN PAN call can be addressed to a named station.

The stuff below comes from the ITU Regs, ITU being the International Telecommunication Union, (not NATIONAL), this is the organisation which assigns all the radio communication stuff such as frequencies, and how to use radio communication.

This is what they say

1) The urgency call should consist of:
– the urgency signal PAN PAN, spoken three times;
the name of the called station or “all stations”, spoken three times;
– the words THIS IS;
– the name of the station transmitting the urgency message, spoken three times;
– the call sign or any other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial announcement has been sent by DSC),


These ain't my rules, these are the Regulations I am meant to adhere to cos it's part of my job. You have the choice, do it right, or do it wrong, makes no difference to me. Given the choice I would prefer to get it right.

Mayday call is a different matter, only mayday call which is addressed to all stations is a Mayday Relay.

If anyone wants to check, here is a link
http://life.itu.int/radioclub/rr/chapt-7.pdf
Nigel, thanks for posting this. But if these are the 'regulations' can you link the 'regulation' not a procedural book.

Also, keep in mind that your referencing, is it a 'British' procedural book? What's becoming clear is that there are slight deviations in how emergency calls are made around the world. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong.
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:32   #152
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

What is becoming clear is that some "amateur" sailors, and I include myself in this category, are happy to argue with the professional ones, who are duty bound to follow the regulations, that their reading or understanding of the laws are better or more correct even, for some reason.

Coops.
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:42   #153
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pirate Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
What is becoming clear is that some "amateur" sailors, and I include myself in this category, are happy to argue with the professional ones, who are duty bound to follow the regulations, that their reading or understanding of the laws are better or more correct even, for some reason.

Coops.
That's the Infernet for ya...
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:46   #154
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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That's the Infernet for ya...
It's both a beneficial and a terrible and frustrating place at times isn't it boatie? Sometimes you read in awe at the knowledge, and sometimes you shake your head in astonishment and disgust at the ignorance or the lack of manners on display.

Coops.
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:54   #155
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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I've not had the experience you or many others have, but the little experience I've had, which includes off shore, I've found my VHF to be very reliable. I can reach the Tamar River from the West side of Flinders Island. On the East side I have to go through a repeater, but then I can reach Hobart Radio.

In December last year I crossed to Melbourne and Tamar Sea Rescue followed me across to close to 80 miles and Vic Radio picked me up at 60 miles out and they followed me all the way down the Vic Coast until I turned around Wilson's Prom.

When I first purchased the boat my radio was crap, but as I later found out some goose had used common tv coaxial to wire it up the mast and in several spots it was rusting away. It basically didn't have an ariel connected at all. But once I fixed that and I'm out to see I get great reception.
VHS is not much better than line of sight. The higher your antenna the better chance of getting over the horizon.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:06   #156
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Nigel, thanks for posting this. But if these are the 'regulations' can you link the 'regulation' not a procedural book.

Also, keep in mind that your referencing, is it a 'British' procedural book? What's becoming clear is that there are slight deviations in how emergency calls are made around the world. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong.
The ITU is not British, it is a UN agency.
This is a link to their website, which will explain what they do.
http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/Pages/default.aspx

Perhaps rules is too strong a word, I think they use the word Recommendations, but all countries that I know of will conform to these recommendations, it is good way to to avoid chaos.
Aeronautical communications also follow ITU recommendations, I think it's obvious what would happen if every country had a different set of rules for communications.
Imagine say that UK decided Ch 16 was for distress, USA said no, lets use Ch 12, or Aussies went for 72, we'd be well up the creek.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:07   #157
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Nigel, thanks for posting this. But if these are the 'regulations' can you link the 'regulation' not a procedural book.

Also, keep in mind that your referencing, is it a 'British' procedural book? What's becoming clear is that there are slight deviations in how emergency calls are made around the world. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong.
It appears to be a exact copy of the radio regulations : Radio Regulations

RR Page

Available elsewhere around the world.. wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Radioreglement 1979, Genève, 17-02-2012 - BWBV0006093

Edit: And the full version here..
http://www.itu.int/pub/R-REG-RR-2012

The regulations do seem to be very precise, with any deviation coming from a lack of indepth knowledge of the regulations.

Thanks for the link, Nigel
No excuse for getting it wrong now.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:15   #158
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Here you go Mark

Found it for you

http://www.amsa.gov.au/forms-and-pub...dbook-2013.pdf

Page 91 for Urgency Calls
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:34   #159
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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It appears to be a exact copy of the radio regulations : Radio Regulations

RR Page

Available elsewhere around the world.. wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Radioreglement 1979, Genève, 17-02-2012 - BWBV0006093

Edit: And the full version here..
Radio Regulations

The regulations do seem to be very precise, with any deviation coming from a lack of indepth knowledge of the regulations.

Thanks for the link, Nigel
No excuse for getting it wrong now.
thank you. A little hard to follow the actual regulation, but seems to be suggesting that the 'all stations' following the alert is from a base station, shore station. And if that's the case then it would explain why some local jurisdictions have slight differences of what is expected from say 'ship to other ships and shore' and from 'shore to ships, or a ship'.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:35   #160
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
The ITU is not British, it is a UN agency.
This is a link to their website, which will explain what they do.
ITU Telecommunication Standardization Sector

Perhaps rules is too strong a word, I think they use the word Recommendations, but all countries that I know of will conform to these recommendations, it is good way to to avoid chaos.
Aeronautical communications also follow ITU recommendations, I think it's obvious what would happen if every country had a different set of rules for communications.
Imagine say that UK decided Ch 16 was for distress, USA said no, lets use Ch 12, or Aussies went for 72, we'd be well up the creek.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:40   #161
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
Here you go Mark

Found it for you

http://www.amsa.gov.au/forms-and-pub...dbook-2013.pdf

Page 91 for Urgency Calls
This seems to fit in more with the International expectations. It seems to me that our Australian Maritime College should be ammending their litature to fit in with this.
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Old 16-11-2014, 17:06   #162
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
The ITU is not British, it is a UN agency.
This is a link to their website, which will explain what they do.
ITU Telecommunication Standardization Sector

Perhaps rules is too strong a word, I think they use the word Recommendations, but all countries that I know of will conform to these recommendations, it is good way to to avoid chaos.
Aeronautical communications also follow ITU recommendations, I think it's obvious what would happen if every country had a different set of rules for communications.
Imagine say that UK decided Ch 16 was for distress, USA said no, lets use Ch 12, or Aussies went for 72, we'd be well up the creek.
Do I understand correctly that most countries don't permit 'initial calling on channel 16' before being directed to a working channel like Australia does?

And I once heard that in some places the navigation marks are reversed as in this web page, which has the green and red reversed on 'leaving the harbour'.

Aids to Navigation, channel markers, day markers, cans, buoys, range finders explained.
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Old 16-11-2014, 17:38   #163
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Do I understand correctly that most countries don't permit 'initial calling on channel 16' before being directed to a working channel like Australia does?

And I once heard that in some places the navigation marks are reversed as in this web page, which has the green and red reversed on 'leaving the harbour'.

Aids to Navigation, channel markers, day markers, cans, buoys, range finders explained.

Channel 16 is designated by the ITU as "International Distress, Safety and Calling."

IOW, it is internationally recognised as the way to "call" i.e. make initial contact with another station.


There are two "buoyage regions" defined by IALA

Region B: The Americas, Japan, Korea, Philippines
Region A: The rest of the world.

The two regions are the opposite way round for channel marker colours. Hence the oft quoted "Red Right Returning" only applies in Region B and is likely to put you aground in most of the world
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Old 16-11-2014, 17:40   #164
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

Some countries are trying to encourage users to use DSC calling. So you want to call another boat, or a coast station and you have a DSC radio, then you send a DSC call to the ship or station and then wait for their DSC response, which, if the equipment is properly set up, will change your VHF to the working channel. This keeps 16 clear for its intended purpose, distress and safety traffic.

It was originally intended to phase out the need for ships to keep a listening watch on Ch 16 because of DSC, but as a lot of users do not have DSC, the ITU strongly recommend that all ships keep watch on 16 when possible.

Buoyage, there are two systems, IALA A,and IALA B

Region B is the America's, Caribbean region, Japan, Korea and the Philippines, Region A is the rest of us.
Only difference is that the colours of the lateral marks are reversed, so shapes are the same.
In Aus, inward bound, leave a green conical buoy to stbd, in the USA, inward bound, leave a red conical buoy to stbd

Another useful little book to go alongside your new radio handbook.
http://www.cil.ie/media/11141/IALA-MBS.pdf

Here endeth today's lessons , due to arrive in St Johns, NFL in an hours time. Must remember, leave the green light to stbd going through the Heads
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Old 16-11-2014, 18:05   #165
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Re: What Justifies a "MAYDAY"?

> This keeps 16 clear for its intended purpose, distress and safety traffic.

Ahem! "distress, safety and calling"
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