What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

[JPA Cate]

It is interesting about the insurance. It will be good for anyone to check their policy to see if the paid captain is excluded; because then, he will need his own insurance, as some suggested earlier and others nay-said.

Mmmmm.

Ann

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Ace Yachtsman is a little grey, but I think the "employee" comment would exclude paid captain coverage. Covered person is defined as you, or any person or legal entity operating the insured vessel as shown on the declarations page with your direct and prior permission. Does not include any person or legal entity operating insured vessel and acting in the capacity of an employee or agent of a marina, repair yard, yacht club, sales agency, boat service station, towing or salvage entity or other similar organization.

So not sure who their insurance company is, but if their policy is similar to any of the above, damage incurred while a paid captain is operating the boat is not covered by their insurance.

For want of a comma...!

[employee] or [agent of a marina etc]
or
[employee or agent] of [a marina etc]

The former interpretation should have a comma after employee.
i.e. "employee, or agent of a marina....."

In the former interpretation, an "employee of a marina" is not included in the exception
In the latter interpretation a captain hired by you does not fall into that category.


“I love cooking my family and my dog. Use commas. They save lives.”

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Just FYI, I was curious about my own insurance policy and whether I would be covered in similar incident - i.e., paid captain onboard operating the vessel.

Boat US (Geico) says: Insured is defined as: 1) you, 2) your family members, and 3) an other person or organization using an insured boat with your direct and prior permission AND WITHOUT COMPENSATION.

Foremost is a little more narrow: You, your and yours mean, with respect to your watercraft, the person named on the declarations page, and that persons family member. (This is the insurance I have on the Seawind, and that raises a question about friends as crew that helped me bring the boat back across the Gulf!)

Again a matter of interpretation.
US(Geico): Is an "other person or organisation" using your boat if you are on board? Or are they only assisting you to use it?

Foremost: You'd need to look at the agreement more fully and see where the you/your/yours is applied, but if damage resulting from the actions of "friends as crew" is excluded then no one could every safely take anyone other than family on board. That seems excessive.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe that if I'm on board, I am the Master of the vessel, and anything that happens is my responsibility.
If I hire someone to help me deliver the boat I am under the impression that does not relieve me of my responsibility, no matter how qualified that person is.
The flip side of that, in my opinion, and of course my opinion may not mean squat, is that I am the one insured, I am on the vessel and in command, it doesn't matter who is driving, they are under my supervision.
I believe the language of the insurance you posted is to prevent you from using the boat in a commercial manner and the insurance be in force

That's my belief too.

Taking on a "paid captain" does not give them authority over you, any more that a commercial vessel taking on a pilot - you remain the master.

[Cadence]

It may be advantageous if the owners policy covers the damage to forget anyone onboard was paid. Other than the renewal premiums or policy cancelation.

[sailjumanji]

If you are you tubing a paid captain onboard driving the boat into a bridge, then I think the argument of who is in charge becomes a problem.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

If you are you tubing a paid captain onboard driving the boat into a bridge, then I think the argument of who is in charge becomes a problem.

It also becomes a question of negligence

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by StuM

For want of a comma...!

Absolutely agree - a comma would change the coverage. I went back and compared what I typed vs the policy, and I got it correct. If you want to interpret the Ace policy more strictly though, read the first sentence: "Covered Person is defined as you, or any person or legal entity operating the Insured Vessel as shown on the Declarations Page with your direct and prior permission." The way that is written, if the name is not on the Declarations page, then that operator is not insured. The next sentence just goes on to further exclude others.

I didn't get into it, but all three policies are much more broad as to who is covered regarding liability (i.e., fixing the other persons damage).

The Boat US policy is much inclusive regarding who can operate the boat and be insured, although it excludes anyone who is compensated. Too bad they cost 1.5 to 2x all of the other quotes I received.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Sometimes the radio and the horn signal just isn't enough. One early morning on the north side of Daytona I called out to a passing jogger and asked her to please knock on the bridge tender's door. Sometimes you have to try all resources!

What a coincidence; the tender with the seeing-eye dog, was also in Daytona.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

"Covered Person is defined as you, or any person or legal entity operating the Insured Vessel as shown on the Declarations Page with your direct and prior permission." The way that is written, if the name is not on the Declarations page, then that operator is not insured. The next sentence just goes on to further exclude others.

Is it the "person or legal entity" or the "Insured Vessel" that has to be shown on the Declarations Page?

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by StuM

Is it the "person or legal entity" or the "Insured Vessel" that has to be shown on the Declarations Page?

I think it is properly worded.

[Group9]

Better to just save your money and wreck your boat yourself, appears to be the moral of this story.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

There ya go again.. spew out the caustic snide then accuse folk of trolling when they respond.. oh so righteous..
Maybe if you read posts through, or put your brain in gear.. you'd realise I'm not a business.. but hell.. wave that wooden spoon around all you want little man.. and I'll keep giving you the finger..

Let's see...

You accept payment for services rendered, you advertise your boat delivery service here on CF, but somehow.... you're "not a business?".

I don't think it works that way.

Looks to me like the thread has drifted over to the opinion of members who've actually read their insurance policies, that the negligent actions of a paid skipper aren't covered under their boat policy, so.... anyone accepting payment for skipper services, sure better have their own liability policy in place.

Otherwise.... the boat owner will be $chit out of luck if there's a loss caused by the skipper.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

The Boat US policy is much inclusive regarding who can operate the boat and be insured, although it excludes anyone who is compensated. Too bad they cost 1.5 to 2x all of the other quotes I received.

That is interesting as "paid crew" SHOULD be a better risk if they had all the professional licenses and a CV showing many years of problem free experience and references.

I wonder if a private yacht owner with that type of experience and Credentials is given a discount on their own insurance?

[undercutter]

[QUOTE=StuM;2315231]For want of a comma...!

[employee or agent] of [a marina etc]

The former interpretation should have a comma after employee.
i.e. "employee, or agent of a marina....."

In the former interpretation, an "employee of a marina" is not included in the exception]

Anyone familiar with the english language would agree that the above is the correct interpretation of the policy. Obviously the insurance company would want to exclude any agency that had use of your vessel outside of your control which would not exclude paid crew. Hell my policy covers my liability towards such crew so how could they preclude coverage of the vessel when operated by same.

You can bet the the verbiage in the policy is correct english and they exclude an employee or agent of any of the agencies listed.

Much ado about nothing. Get a good lawyer and they will pay.