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Old 19-01-2017, 05:03   #106
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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That's more like it.. if your gonna have a Pop.. go all the way..
To much PC in the world..
Nope.....he works for an Insurance company..
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:05   #107
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Do you and/or your insurers require your crew to carry a separate insurance while on your boat.. just in case they stuff up on watch while you are asleep..?? I doubt it.. any more than your car insurance for 'named drivers'.
Flawed analogy. They're not professionals that you're entrusting vessel/vehicle to. Michael Schumacher would be welcome to drive my car, but I suspect my insurance company would have words with me if he crashed it.

I take it the bottom line is that you don't have insurance, and that in your experience the boat owner's insurer always and fully covers claims for incidents where the paid professional captain is clearly and exclusively at fault. I'd be surprised by that, given my experience with insurance companies.
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:16   #108
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

This was difficult for me to watch. Perhaps, to some, it will explain who the prospective "cruisers" were even though the captain remains unidentified.
good luck and safe sailing.

https://youtu.be/t5QO7PIky-M?list=PL...J8nQ7Bg7I52sng
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:29   #109
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pirate Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Flawed analogy. They're not professionals that you're entrusting vessel/vehicle to. Michael Schumacher would be welcome to drive my car, but I suspect my insurance company would have words with me if he crashed it.

I take it the bottom line is that you don't have insurance, and that in your experience the boat owner's insurer always and fully covers claims for incidents where the paid professional captain is clearly and exclusively at fault. I'd be surprised by that, given my experience with insurance companies.
I suspect a bit of class warfare is creeping in here.. all this concentration on 'Professional'..
If a person drives for a haulage company in their vehicle does he require a separate insurance for stupid accidents.. or the driver of a dustcart.. in my eyes whoever earns a living from what they do and do it competently they are professionals.. you will find the self serving selfish idiots don't last long in the job.. make one bad decision/prang whatever and the door to making a living in that field is slammed shut.. your only ever remembered for the last 'Bad Job'.. the 100 successes before are irrelevant.
As an independent gas fitter/heating installer I had to carry insurance to cover faulty work resulting in death and destruction.. however after checking around I found that carrying Liability for accident/illness for myself and crew was sufficiently acceptable.. with the owners insurance for the vessel I command and me being approved by the insurers sufficient.
And.. if you'd bothered to read an earlier post all this is clearly stated in my terms and conditions contract.. I'm kinda upfront with nothing to hide.
However.. just for you and Keno if you ever need a Transat delivery I will happily take out the liability insurance you seem to think essential to saving your no claims premiums.. but.. it would mean bumping up my usual fee considerably.. you pay.. I'll play..
Only claims ever.. lightening strike.
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:38   #110
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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You forgot...if you hire a captain, check his insurance.
If you hire a captain (s)he will most likely require YOU to have insurance AND a rider that names the captain as additional insured under your policy.
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:39   #111
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This was difficult for me to watch. Perhaps, to some, it will explain who the prospective "cruisers" were even though the captain remains unidentified.
good luck and safe sailing.

https://youtu.be/t5QO7PIky-M?list=PL...J8nQ7Bg7I52sng
Well, it's not my cup of tea either, but how is this relevant to the issue? Is there some acceptable format to the starting cruiser that they fail to reach? AFAIK before they moved on with their plan "to sail the world" they did:
- take sailing lessons
- research the market for boats
- have a realistic budget for the boat (although at 80k(?) for a 48 footer(?) is not much)
- hire a surveyor to check the boat
- hire a captain to take them out to their preferred cruising grounds and teach them on the way
Seems to me they did most things right. Certainly more than many of the hopefuls on CF threads.

I understand that people have issues with the dozens of YT "sailing" channels. I think most are crap, but there are a couple of gems that I really enjoy. What I don't see is how their vlogging somehow makes them less responsible, especially in this bridge incident. The one thing I would criticize is that they hired the wrong captain, and even that is speculation - he might have had great references and have a really bad day (I do assume he was incompetent).
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:39   #112
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post

I take it the bottom line is that you don't have insurance, and that in your experience the boat owner's insurer always and fully covers claims for incidents where the paid professional captain is clearly and exclusively at fault. I'd be surprised by that, given my experience with insurance companies.
As a Superyacht captain, my licenses, resume of experience and professional Reference's were requested by the Owners Insurance company as part of the endorsement.

Never a suggestion that I provide my own insurance for a +$60m liability

Nor do I know of commercial shipping companies that requires their crew to be self insured before hiring them.

Double cover is a stupid waste of money designed to attract the litigious mindset.
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:40   #113
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pirate Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

Rhetorical Question.. does what You require make a 'professional' more or less careful.. considering its insured..
Or could we just be functioning on different cultural/mental levels and values..
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Old 19-01-2017, 05:55   #114
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

i watched those kids on youtube.. i couldnt believe that the capt continued forward momentum when the bridge wasnt fully open and imho nikki was lucky she didnt get hurt.. you can clearly hear nikki tell the capt "stop the bridge isnt open" and you can clearly hear the capt respond " oh.. dont worry about it.. ill thread the needle " or something to that effect and 30 sec later... bang crash
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:09   #115
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Originally Posted by Sandibar View Post
Well, it's not my cup of tea either, but how is this relevant to the issue? Is there some acceptable format to the starting cruiser that they fail to reach? AFAIK before they moved on with their plan "to sail the world" they did:
- take sailing lessons
- research the market for boats
- have a realistic budget for the boat (although at 80k(?) for a 48 footer(?) is not much)
- hire a surveyor to check the boat
- hire a captain to take them out to their preferred cruising grounds and teach them on the way
Seems to me they did most things right. Certainly more than many of the hopefuls on CF threads.

I understand that people have issues with the dozens of YT "sailing" channels. I think most are crap, but there are a couple of gems that I really enjoy. What I don't see is how their vlogging somehow makes them less responsible, especially in this bridge incident. The one thing I would criticize is that they hired the wrong captain, and even that is speculation - he might have had great references and have a really bad day (I do assume he was incompetent).

Sandibar,
I would respond to your comments by using a phrase taught to me by my late grandmother:
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:11   #116
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pirate Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

I agree.. its a cock up by a skipper out to impress the PYT and reaching beyond his ability.
No reflection on the young couple..
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:19   #117
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Sandibar,
I would respond to your comments by using a phrase taught to me by my late grandmother:
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Good luck and safe sailing.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with many of the idioms in the English language. But I assume you mean that the proof they are incompetent and shouldn't be sailing is because they had an accident with a bridge?
In that case I do disagree and maintain that the hired captain who was trusted with helming the boat is to blame. I would however be interested what preparation other than what I listed above you would consider adequate? Is there a better way to learn sailing than first having formal training and then having a captain on your own yacht to teach you?
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:19   #118
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

I am going to make an assumption and then comment based on that assumption.

I think they are/were more in love with the idea of being YT famous than actual sailors. Which is fine by me. But if that's the case, this could be the best thing that ever happened to them. I subscribed to their channel early and had faded away. But when I saw that they hit a bridge and sustained substantial damage, I was back. And quite frankly I can't wait to see how this plays out. It's drama and everyone loves watching drama. Also, I feel it will be a great learning process for many of would be sailors/cruisers.


PS. You know what happens when you assume?
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:22   #119
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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I don't know Boatie. In our family "Youngandstoopid" is one word.
LOL,- Our common one word is "Youngandinmanure".

Another thought on the list of bridge cautions would be to have a separate and individual contact with the bridge tender when passing through with other vessels. Years ago we had a close call when following another sailboat through an opening. The bridge operator started closing the span when we were just entering the fenders. We were fortunate to make quick contact and horn blasts to gain his attention. I had not made separate contact and assumed our presence was obvious.

I also remember hearing South Florida bridge tenders commonly warn boaters not to enter the fender area prior to complete opening. One operator just north of Lauderdale would say, "No entry prior to complete erection". We thought this was a common axiom!
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Old 19-01-2017, 06:30   #120
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Re: What happens when your mast hits an opening bridge

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Sorry, I'm not familiar with many of the idioms in the English language. But I assume you mean that the proof they are incompetent and shouldn't be sailing is because they had an accident with a bridge?
In that case I do disagree and maintain that the hired captain who was trusted with helming the boat is to blame. I would however be interested what preparation other than what I listed above you would consider adequate? Is there a better way to learn sailing than first having formal training and then having a captain on your own yacht to teach you?
Sandibar,
A young, inexperienced couple with an incompetent captain undertake a circumnavigation and hit a bridge resulting in major damage/total loss in the Intercoastal. I don't think this needs a more detailed explanation. However, your perspective certainly reflects how you feel and certainly the feelings of others. Good luck and safe sailing.
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