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07-07-2011, 05:50
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Vague Steering
Hello,
One of the "issues" I have with my lovely yacht, is her handling... She's a steel Thames Barge style affair with chain driven wheel steering. She seems to take forever to turn and in marinas is quite frankly worrying. We have found the faster she is moving the better, but in slow docking movements scary.
Any suggestions?
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Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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07-07-2011, 06:06
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,961
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Re: Vague steering
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
Hello,
One of the "issues" I have with my lovely yacht, is her handling... She's a steel Thames Barge style affair with chain driven wheel steering. She seems to take forever to turn and in marinas is quite frankly worrying. We have found the faster she is moving the better, but in slow docking movements scary.
Any suggestions?
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The next time you have her hauled, look at increasing the size of the rudder. The Hiscock's had a similar issue with Wandered IV and resolved it with a major mod while on the hard in NZ. For the story--and photos--see Hiscock's "Around the World in Wanderer IV"
If you trouble finding a copy of that book, stop by the Cruising Association HQ at Limehouse Basin, London.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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07-07-2011, 06:12
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Re: Vague steering
Thanks for that, I'll look the book up. -Someone else has suggested lengthening the rudder, she's triple keeled so a bit hard to make it deeper without loosing grounding abilities.
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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07-07-2011, 06:20
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cocoa, FL
Boat: Wittholz 39' Cutter by Kanter, CSY 37 Cutter
Posts: 595
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Re: Vague steering
Iceni,
I had the same trouble with an older 40' hvy displacement power boat. I removed the 1/2 heart shaped rudder and had a new one cut that increase the size by about 30%, basically squared the aft end of rudder and added a 3" forward section ahead of the rudder post to help balance the additional area. Made cruising and docking with single screw much easier. Might take a look at your rudder shape and see if that would help.
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07-07-2011, 06:39
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Re: Vague steering
This is an old photo of her hull out of the water -no changes from this photo, I'm considering adding an extra 1 ft to her rudder at the aft?
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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07-07-2011, 07:09
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,131
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Re: Vague steering
Those bilge keels probably give good straight line steering, but resist turning.
Judging by the height ot the person, that rudder would appear to be 3ft x 6ft.
may require a bit more aggressive throttle when docking.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
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07-07-2011, 07:41
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Re: Vague steering
Thanks Blue Stocking, thats whats happening, but she is so un responsive in docking that the bow just wants to swing... I'm hesitant to look at bow thrusters due to the cost! Restoring to ramming front around with Tender seems to be the best option at the moment.
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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07-07-2011, 08:06
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
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Re: Vague steering
The easy way of improving rudder effect is to add a bulge on both sides up the trailing edge of the rudder. It has a name but it's effect is to improve rudder effect by a marked degree. Something like a splayed angle on each side could be bolted through.
In plan view it should look like a fish tail, or a Y , with the edges being an inch or so from the face of the rudder. Bonus of bottling through is it's easy to fit and remove. I'm sure you won't remove it. (In use on the boat next to mine after rudder! troubles).
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Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
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07-07-2011, 21:40
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: We're technically refugees from our home in Yemen now living in Lebenon
Boat: 1978 CT48
Posts: 5,964
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Re: Vague steering
There are double hinged or articulated rudders that enhance steering performance
Imagine a second rudder on the trailing edge of the existing rudder...
You may be able to modify yours.
Van der Velden ® Marine Systems Timon rudder and Becker Marine System have some examples.
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
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08-07-2011, 01:53
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Thanks for the suggestions, The Becker system looks like something I could have a go at fabricating to add to it. Will read up more about hinged rudders as I've never heard of them before.
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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08-07-2011, 05:12
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,131
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Re: Vague steering
Quote:
Originally Posted by James S
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Steel hull--how about a Kort nozzle around the prop.
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so many projects--so little time !!
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08-07-2011, 06:06
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,154
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Re: Vague Steering
G'Day,
A basic question that no one has asked: How many degrees of rudder movement can you get? If the swing is limited, this can affect low speed maneuvering.
At first glance, the rudder area appears "normal"... certainly not grossly undersized. But the long and deep keel plus the bilge keels will certainly reduce maneuverability at low speeds.
Interesting boat, BTW!
Cheers,
Jim
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Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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08-07-2011, 10:37
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: We're technically refugees from our home in Yemen now living in Lebenon
Boat: 1978 CT48
Posts: 5,964
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Re: Vague Steering
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
Thanks for the suggestions, The Becker system looks like something I could have a go at fabricating to add to it. Will read up more about hinged rudders as I've never heard of them before.
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I've seen homemade versions of these on fishing boats in Alaska and a tug somewhere.
Robust linkage is the key I think.
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James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
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30-07-2011, 09:47
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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FIXED IT!'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was a bottle screw on the rudder chain that just insisted on working loose five minutes after we sailed out! Can't wait to get a good tide in now to test the steering!
Thank you all for suggestions!
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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30-07-2011, 09:48
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Steel hulled, gaff ketch, 45ft
Posts: 11
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Thanks for the compliment on the boat by the way Jim, sorry I missed that before. I've got more photos of her at www.icenitribe.org
Tony.
__________________
Yacht Iceni, 45ft Steel Gaff Ketch
Follow our blog at: www.icenitribe.org
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