USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

This would be the same air force that strafes and bombs its allies?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarnak_Farm_incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Medusa



You're talking about the Zumwalt and its mysterious propulsion blackouts?

Lot's of air force pilots become commercial pilots when they leave the air force. Few naval officers become merchant mariners when leaving the navy. Wonder why?

[Randy]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

I do believe this thread has lost it's way to a bunch of "arm-chair" type amateurs! While most of the threads are informative this one has long turned into a gossip session and belongs on FB or some other meaningless social media!

Some truth to this!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Lot's of air force pilots become commercial pilots when they leave the air force. Few naval officers become merchant mariners when leaving the navy. Wonder why?

Interesting observation. Maybe because jobs in the defense industry pay better with better stay home lifestyle.

[kmacdonald]

The pilots learned a valuable skill, the naval officers didnt.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Interesting observation. Maybe because jobs in the defence industry pay better with better stay home lifestyle.

Unfortunately Incorrect, ex Royal Australian Navy deck officers very very rarely make the crossover into the commercial sector as they are simply not qualified, even an ex RAN Captain will not even qualify as a Second Mate/Chief Officer without further extensive schooling.

As for wages the RAN pay compared to commercial is dismal, defence here is well known for poor comparable wages.

[Uricanejack]

It used to be quite rare. For ex Navy to cross over. It’s becoming more common.
Due to pressure from industry and organizations help ex service transition to civilian life. Canada is making it easier. With many Navy qualifications and course being accepted as equivalent.
Why? crew shortages. Result of decades of underfunding and limited training or experience opertunities for civilians.

It’s more common in the US than it was, More common in the UK than it was. Probably for similar reasons.

If I remember right the Master of the El Faro was ex USN. This might not be the best example to use in this context.

It’s just an example of a guy who made the transition.

[El Pinguino]

RN and RAN officers used to get a 'Certificate of Service' upon leaving the service .... introduced - I believe - after WW2 so the vast numbers of unemployed officers could find gainful employment.

I think it could be used in lieu of a Mates (FG). Sailed with 4 or 5 over the years.

Stopped handing them out in about 1980ish as it was realised that their navy skills were of little use in the MN.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

It used to be quite rare. For ex Navy to cross over. It’s becoming more common.
Due to pressure from industry and organizations help ex service transition to civilian life. Canada is making it easier. With many Navy qualifications and course being accepted as equivalent.
Why? crew shortages. Result of decades of underfunding and limited training or experience opertunities for civilians.

It’s more common in the US than it was, More common in the UK than it was. Probably for similar reasons.

If I remember right the Master of the El Faro was ex USN. This might not be the best example to use in this context.

It’s just an example of a guy who made the transition.

It's still very rare mate, i'll look for the article from last year stating such (although it's at work i think) it was a US one if i remember correctly but dealt with Navies around the world stating the difficulty faced by ex Navy guys crossing over....

I see you quoted the one example, i'll trump that as i personally know of 2, but that is in the whole of my seafaring career, that is an abysmal stat.....

And as for crew shortages in civilian life?? where have you been?? there has never been so many qualified seafarers sitting on the beach worldwide as has been for the last 5 years or so, the Offshore O&G industry for one is going through it's lowest slump in decades, most of those out of a job there have gone to the Blue Water when jobs come up, and lets not forget global shipping is struggling to address problems of excess capacity, excess shipping is laid up everywhere....Global Shipping has been in the crapper for ages!

[kmacdonald]

A 1st Asst Engineer is lucky to ship out as a 3rd Asst.

[Uricanejack]

Where have I been. North of your border.
We used to be able recruit young ex RCN. Today the RCN pays better and poaching the younger ones isn’t easy. Today we hire retired RCN.
Or pretty much anyone with a valid certificate a full set of arms and legs able to walk through the door.

We have shortage from basic lookout. On up.
Senior certification very short. Particularly 1st 2nd Class.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Lot's of air force pilots become commercial pilots when they leave the air force. Few naval officers become merchant mariners when leaving the navy. Wonder why?

Do you have actual stats?
I know a fair number who have, but know far more who go on to be executives. Might be they're sick of being away from family all the time. Might be that a transition to MM wouldn't usually be a lateral shift, but result in a demotion. Not a lot of incentive to make the shift.

Maybe the recent spate of drunk flying incidents are former Air Force - I'm still curious why you rate the Air Force so well?

[Lodesman]

It may have posted before, but this article gives some insight into what is wrong with the USN's watchkeepers:

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...ure-in-crisis/

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Unfortunately Incorrect, ex Royal Australian Navy deck officers very very rarely make the crossover into the commercial sector as they are simply not qualified, even an ex RAN Captain will not even qualify as a Second Mate/Chief Officer without further extensive schooling.

As for wages the RAN pay compared to commercial is dismal, defence here is well known for poor comparable wages.

By Defense Industry I meant Boeing, Lockheed, etc. They do pay well.

[kmacdonald]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...ure-in-crisis/

Mostly smoke. If the officers didn't learn what they needed at the Naval Academy they're not going to learn it in another class. If they need to be spoon fed basic and simple skills they aren't fit for duty. They need professionals that can take the initiative to gain the skills they need to do an exceptional job. Why does the Navy feel they need a "merit badge" and associated training for the most basic of skills? Leave it to the Navy to take advantage of a tragedy to pad an already bloated budget with additional training funding.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Paul L

By Defense Industry I meant Boeing, Lockheed, etc. They do pay well.

Retired military are given jobs within the Defense Industry to reward past favoritism and ensure future favoritism of active duty military. Generally they are given a coloring book with a box of crayons and put in the corner.