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Old 12-10-2015, 23:12   #16
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Thanks ping, great thing about this is the getting feedback on your experience. E.g. I used 18mm on snowpetrel for my shorelines. Its good to hear you've been using 12 mm poly and it's worked. I can downsize now! Cheers and say hi to Wayne and Cathy if you see them.

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Old 13-10-2015, 01:29   #17
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Short answer, (I need to go to bed) talk to Skip Novak & co Skip Novak's Pelagic Expeditions Antarctica, Greenland, South Georgia, Cape Horn, Southern Ocean -- charter sailing yacht Pelagic, photographs, articles I'm certain that he's beyond an expert in such matters by now. After having "played" in the world's southern most waters & anchorages for 2+ decades.

Also, I'd suggest shopping for ropes Commercial venues, not Yachting ones. You'll find things for less $, as well as seeing a good number of more options. Including by perusing the line manufacturers catalogs online. There's a LOT of choices in there you'll never see in a yacht chandlery... sadly.

PS: If you know someone with a lathe, & an anodizing dunk tank, you can crank out as many of those slippery, aluminum rings (donuts) as you desire, for Cheap!
Oversized ones in this case, mind you.
Then use'em as chafe protection, & disposable shore side anchors, just as climbers with $ do with 'biners.

BTW, finding anodizers isn't all that tough, so... Just get QUALITY aluminum billets from which to start with.
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Old 13-10-2015, 12:48   #18
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Re: Using Shorefasts

With all due respect to Skip Novak I have never found the need for 'anti chafe' gear. We are talking Patagonia here.. not South Georgia or Antarctica.

My ropes were in constant use the whole time I was there and show no signs of chafe... the shore end is static where it goes around the tree. Never had to quit an anchorage either. I carry three 'rond'(sp) anchors which I have never found the need to use ( they are bloody great 'tent pegs' about 2 foot long by one inch diameter designed for use in the French Canals).

Just make sure that when you tie your bowline the knot is down by the waters edge so you don't need to get out of the dinghy to let it go.

If coming out of the Pacific the best place to buy polyprop rope is 'Gandara' in Angelmo, Pto Montt.

The vast majority of the anchorages listed in the 2 'pilots'are secure and well sheltered.... I have a short list of 4 to avoid at all costs... Venas Abiertos, Yahgan, ( lost wind instruments from the masthead in both of them and nearly lost my boat in the first), Uriarte, and Luis.

Just remember...'make the land your friend'.
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Old 13-10-2015, 13:00   #19
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Thanks ping, great thing about this is the getting feedback on your experience. E.g. I used 18mm on snowpetrel for my shorelines. Its good to hear you've been using 12 mm poly and it's worked. I can downsize now! Cheers and say hi to Wayne and Cathy if you see them.

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Shall do but they are up north now...

12mm works well for me...8 ton boat.... but I think you meant polyprop not poyethylene earlier

Anchoring in Olla? Not for me... falls away pretty quick and - being out in the wind- you are likely to drag into deep water- don't ask how I know this....
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Old 13-10-2015, 15:37   #20
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Re: Using Shorefasts

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
With all due respect to Skip Novak I have never found the need for 'anti chafe' gear. We are talking Patagonia here.. not South Georgia or Antarctica.

My ropes were in constant use the whole time I was there and show no signs of chafe... the shore end is static where it goes around the tree. Never had to quit an anchorage either. I carry three 'rond'(sp) anchors which I have never found the need to use ( they are bloody great 'tent pegs' about 2 foot long by one inch diameter designed for use in the French Canals).

Just make sure that when you tie your bowline the knot is down by the waters edge so you don't need to get out of the dinghy to let it go.

If coming out of the Pacific the best place to buy polyprop rope is 'Gandara' in Angelmo, Pto Montt.

The vast majority of the anchorages listed in the 2 'pilots'are secure and well sheltered.... I have a short list of 4 to avoid at all costs... Venas Abiertos, Yahgan, ( lost wind instruments from the masthead in both of them and nearly lost my boat in the first), Uriarte, and Luis.

Just remember...'make the land your friend'.

Got to disagree on the chaffing gear. Just because you haven't needed it yet does not mean it is prudent to go without. Just like seatbelts and helmets. I can't count the thousands of time I put on a seatbelt over my 25+ yes of driving. Never needed it at all but a few weeks back I was sure glad I put it when I got hit head on by some dude on the highway. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Both rigs totaled. Not only did I walk away, I was the one that opened his airway and held C-spine till others got there to help. They had to cut the top off his car so they could backboard him out.

Seatbelts and chaffing gear, we use them in the hopes we never need them
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Old 13-10-2015, 17:30   #21
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Re: Using Shorefasts

I think many of the good answers only indicate that the gradient of foreshore and if covered with tidal barnacles, dictates whether it is better to tie high or low and the need for chaffing around the strong point or the use of chain.

We beach tie quite often on Super yachts in remote pacific atoll islands to get out of the swell.

Twin anchors, twin stern lines to hold ship rock steady in the trades. All with very heavy tackle and a close eye on the fixing points.
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Old 13-10-2015, 23:14   #22
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Re: Using Shorefasts

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Got to disagree on the chaffing gear. Just because you haven't needed it yet does not mean it is prudent to go without. Just like seatbelts and helmets. I can't count the thousands of time I put on a seatbelt over my 25+ yes of driving. Never needed it at all but a few weeks back I was sure glad I put it when I got hit head on by some dude on the highway. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Both rigs totaled. Not only did I walk away, I was the one that opened his airway and held C-spine till others got there to help. They had to cut the top off his car so they could backboard him out.

Seatbelts and chaffing gear, we use them in the hopes we never need them
I didn't say don't carry it.... I do but have only used it - in recent years - in Antofagasta due to the heavy surge you often get in the harbour there.

What I am saying is that in almost ten years in Patagonia, in 200 or so anchorages - on multiple visits to most - in all seasons and in 'weather assorted' -I have never had chafe problems and have never felt the need for any fancy chaffing kit, chains, etc etc,...is all.

In my not so humble opinion there is a lot of 'puff' put out about the Patagonian channels... some by people selling a 'product' ... some going 'look at me..look at me..'.

I have never been in an anchorage where 'all the trees have been flattened by ferocious gusts'... in some places there are simply no trees and often where there are trees the buggers are a bit cunning... see the first piccy.

Another one is 'you need a hard dinghy because the razor sharp shellfish will rip the bottom out of an inflatable' .. funny how my 21 year old soft bottomed Achilles has experienced no bottom damage... the tubes are getting a bit weary but no bottom damage... just saying....

I admire the people who were cruising down there 15 or more years ago, no weather info, no pilot books aimed at the cruiser, it wouldn't have been easy.

But now... not so bad, lots of good info out there.

Yes its coldish and can be windyish but the biggest danger is being hit by a racha with too much sail up... that will lead to tears.... feel free to ask me about rachas one day.
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Old 13-10-2015, 23:30   #23
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Having chaffing gear aboard and not using it is just like having a seatbelt but not wearing it.

You can't put either on after you needed it. If something chaffs through in the night and you wake up on the rocks a lot of good that chaffing gear will do you then.

If I anchor out in anything other than nice weather and sea conditions you can bet I will add some chaffing gear to contact points on my boat that are smooth and intended to handle the rode. But wrapping a line around a rock with no chaffing gear and hoping for the best in a deteriorating sea state is just asking for trouble. I wouldn't let 10 or even 25+ years of luck lead to complacency.
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Old 14-10-2015, 00:01   #24
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Re: Using Shorefasts

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Having chaffing gear aboard and not using it is just like having a seatbelt but not wearing it.

You can't put either on after you needed it. If something chaffs through in the night and you wake up on the rocks a lot of good that chaffing gear will do you then.

If I anchor out in anything other than nice weather and sea conditions you can bet I will add some chaffing gear to contact points on my boat that are smooth and intended to handle the rode. But wrapping a line around a rock with no chaffing gear and hoping for the best in a deteriorating sea state is just asking for trouble. I wouldn't let 10 or even 25+ years of luck lead to complacency.
OK...whatever... but its not 'luck'.

We are talking Patagonia here... 99.999999% of the time you are taking lines around trees... often quite small trees whose roots go all the way to China.

You are not dealing with 'deteriorating sea states'. That is the whole idea.... you are tucked up under the lee of the land and the water is as flat as yesterday's beer.

The boat is not jumping around....and a rope around a tree isn't chaffing its 'fixed'. One of the beauties of Polyprop is that it is relatively 'low stretch'.

The four on my black list? One because, while its out of Magellan, it is open to wind from the south west, is very kelpy and everything is trying to push you onto the beach.... zero load on shore lines as all wind from ahead,but the water is still flat as a tack. Two are there because the wind can blow 'out' of them strong enough to strip your masthead of instruments, and one because surge gets into it... thats four out of 200.

Here is another one..looking north across Puerto Angosto...Isla Desolacion.. towards Estrecho de Magellanes...good enough but a very windy and uncomfortable in a blow ( still no chafe ).... Slocum's Notch ( photos posted earlier) is above and behind the yacht masts if you get my drift... flat calm and no load on lines when its blowing a hooligan down that entrance channel. Not even wind at the masthead.



A note for the OP... 'closed' cleats are good as often you are running shore lines 'uphill'... and this is yet another reason to tie off your bowlines at the waters edge... unless you have a crew of mountain goats....
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Old 14-10-2015, 00:12   #25
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Re: Using Shorefasts

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OK...whatever... but its not 'luck'.

We are talking Patagonia here... 99.999999% of the time you are taking lines around trees... often quite small trees whose roots go all the way to China.

You are not dealing with 'deteriorating sea states'. That is the whole idea.... you are tucked up under the lee of the land and the water is as flat as yesterday's beer.

The boat is not jumping around....and a rope around a tree isn't chaffing its 'fixed'. One of the beauties of Polyprop is that it is relatively 'low stretch'.

The four on my black list? One because, while its out of Magellan, it is open to wind from the south west, is very kelpy and everything is trying to push you onto the beach.... zero load on shore lines as all wind from ahead,but the water is still flat as a tack. Two are there because the wind can blow 'out' of them strong enough to strip your masthead of instruments, and one because surge gets into it... thats four out of 200.

Here is another one..looking north across Puerto Angosto...Isla Desolacion.. towards Estrecho de Magellanes...good enough but a very windy and uncomfortable in a blow ( still no chafe ).... Slocum's Notch ( photos posted earlier) is above and behind the yacht masts if you get my drift... flat calm and no load on lines when its blowing a hooligan down that entrance channel. Not even wind at the masthead.



A note for the OP... 'closed' cleats are good as often you are running shore lines 'uphill'... and this is yet another reason to tie off your bowlines at the waters edge... unless you have a crew of mountain goats....
I agree in calm water/wind with little boat movement chaffing gearris not needed. But the OP's original question specifically describe rough condition. As such I would suggest chaffing gear under the conditions expressed by the OP.

Are we on the same page now.
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Old 14-10-2015, 00:22   #26
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Re: Using Shorefasts

OK back on the same page....

'Would you attach shorefasts in these nasty conditions or set an anchor watch and deal with shorefasts when everything has calmed down in the morning?'

My answer to the OP's original question would be anchor and wait until morning.
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Old 14-10-2015, 06:23   #27
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Little to add, save for a recommendation on rope...

I've been using this stuff from Cajun Ropes, a far better alternative to regular polypro, IMHO... Greater strength, a snap to splice, I think it holds knots and being cleated a bit more securely, it appears to be very resistant to chafe, and the price is right ;-) Perhaps not as cheap as polypro, but very affordable...

Olectec - 12 - Cajunrope.com

What appears to be the same stuff is available from Yale Ropes, branded as "Lugger Line"... Since the OP is in New England, he may want to check with Hamilton Marine, they stock it and occasionally offer it at a discount... But Cajun had the smaller size I wanted, and I'm very happy with their service and the product...

Lugger Line - Single Braided Rope & Single Braid Rope - Industrial Rope | Yale Cordage

I stow mine on reels, it's far more compact than bags for this particular rope... I also carry a couple of lengths of Amsteel in bags, where it lays much more easily and compactly than the Olectec...

One other suggestion, coming from one who sails a small boat where stowage space is at a premium, and having gear that an serve double duty pays dividends... If you're planning on carrying a Series Drogue, make it from Amsteel, and it can serve as one of your shore lines, as well...


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Old 14-10-2015, 06:37   #28
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Re: Using Shorefasts

^^ very nice looking rope Jon, and the best description of how the blended polyolefin ropes work, it seems like there's a huge variation in strengths out there.

Where's that pic taken?

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Old 14-10-2015, 17:35   #29
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Re: Using Shorefasts

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^^ very nice looking rope Jon, and the best description of how the blended polyolefin ropes work, it seems like there's a huge variation in strengths out there.

Where's that pic taken?
That was up in Saglek Fiord, northern Labrador...

Pretty spot...

;-)






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Old 14-10-2015, 17:42   #30
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Re: Using Shorefasts

Lovely spot! Thanks for the pics.

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