Using a Non-Self-Tailing Winch

[theonecalledtom]

Slack the line just before it rides over and it'll [probably] settle down into order. On our new old boat all the winches seem to have this problem.....

I figure the lead angle for the head sail lines acounts for the winch problems there but not on the mast winches. Have been wondering if the dirty salty lines/halyards perhaps made the problem worse.

[bigfatcircle]

I'd love to have self-tailers. Alas, I only have old fashioned winches... 12 of 'em of my barnacle-encrusted Hughes 38.

...I often just put a few extra wraps on my sheet winches and toss their tails in the water. The creates just enough to pressure to... 'turn 'em into poor man's self tailers'. Only problem is fellow boaters hailing me, "You got a line in the water, Skip!" and, of course, making sure they're back in before cranking up.

Fatty, heading for Thailand next week.

[ssullivan]

It worked..

I stopped using the blue "cleat ring" at the top of the winch and it works fine now.

The davit line I am using on it (it's normally used for jib sheet tensioning) comes in from above the winch. Listening to the advice here, I figured I could just route it around the winch from the top of the winch to the bottom.

Worked perfectly!

Before, I had it feeding in from the bottom and tailing out at the top. When the line is coming in from *above* the winch, this doesn't work at all... rat's nest!

So,thanks. Problem completely solved.

[sandy daugherty]

Ouch! Sean, that's got to be complicated, loading a winch upside down! Can't you bring the davit line down to a block on the toe rail or something?

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by bigfatcircle

I'd love to have self-tailers. Alas, I only have old fashioned winches... 12 of 'em of my barnacle-encrusted Hughes 38.

...I often just put a few extra wraps on my sheet winches and toss their tails in the water. The creates just enough to pressure to... 'turn 'em into poor man's self tailers'. Only problem is fellow boaters hailing me, "You got a line in the water, Skip!" and, of course, making sure they're back in before cranking up.

Fatty, heading for Thailand next week.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. G. Glad you're here. I greatly enjoy your Sunday Weekend Edition reports on NPR. The image of an experienced sailor in a 38' sailboat needing 11 days to make the 200 miles from the Maldives to Chagos due to adverse winds is the one that wannabe cruisers should contemplate when they wonder "What's it like out there?"

I look forward to reading your words of wisdom, Fatty. Cruisers Forum is enhanced by your coming aboard.

For those who would like to hear a few of Fatty's reports, go to:

Big Picture is Easy to See in Captain Fatty's Atolls : NPR

TaoJones

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

Ouch! Sean, that's got to be complicated, loading a winch upside down! Can't you bring the davit line down to a block on the toe rail or something?

Actually, it's surprisingly simple.

The winch is in line with the davit's cam cleat and all I do is start the winding at the top of the winch, tailing off the bottom. Is working with no effort.

[sandy daugherty]

Il'd have a Middie doing pushups for loading a winch upside down, but I can't think of a good reason you shouldn't. Other than you can't strip the winch afterwards very fast, in case you need it for something else, and that winches taper slightly from the base to the top. It just seems unamurkin or something. Wheels?

[badlattitude]

Originally Posted by isbolick

Man, you think YOUR question makes you sound like an idiot...I have no idea what a 'self tailing winch' is. I read the title to my husband and he said it sounded like a type of porn star. I had to spell it for him W-I-N-C-H, not W-E-N-C-H.

Jeez, we have so much to LEARN.

When you are using a winch, you need to keep pulling on the tail of the line to keep it tight against the drum for friction. If it's a big load then you might need two hands on the winch handle, and another crew member to do the "tailing"

Self tailing winches have spring loaded circular jaws at the top of them, and a kind of hook which lifts the line from the winch drum and feeds it into the jaws. The jaws keep a tension on the line against the drum, allowing you to use both hands on the handle, without needing another crewmember.

Pretty poor description, but if you look at some pics and read it again it might make sense...... Lewmar

[Bejasus]

on both of our masts all of the winches were smaller non-self tailers. It was a pain when raising halyards on one's own. So I have just bought a pair of winchers because I didn't know any better, and they were on a cheap offer from WM. Anyhoo they do seem to have given me some control and improvement, but yes, the sheets do have to be well snugged up to the back of the rubber. Also I have just fitted new Selden winch pads which give the winches a much better angle to lead the halyards on to.

Also nice to see Cap'n Fatty on here.

[Cacique]

What a brilliant idea from Captain Fatty about the poor mans self tailing winches I will be trying this out this week end.
Thank You Captain Fatty.
PS Just listened to 8 of Captain Fatty's reports on NPR. Definately worth a listen.
Cheers Jamie

[bigfatcircle]

Thanks for the kind words. My 'self-tailers' work fine... but my felllow boaters are always yelling at me, "...hey, skipper, you've got a line trailing...!"

[sandy daugherty]

There is some advantage to non-tailing winches on a mast: They make it very easy for a single person to "sweat" the sail up with much greater mechanical advantage than the winch can provide, and do it faster too:

With several wraps on the winch and the tail in one hand, pull the tight side away from the mast, getting another inch or two of hoist, and asvyou release the tight side, jerk in the slack by pulling the tail, getting another quarter turn or so of the winch drum. This is sometimes called "pumping" the halyard. You will be surprised at your progress! This can be done (a little less elegantly) with a turn around a cleat instead of a winch, with the advantage being you all ready have the halyard tight on the cleat, and you don't run the risk of losing it all if you have to take it off the winch.

[zeehag]

i wear gloves when i sail because i need to hold onto the lines and sheets as my winches are not self tailing--the leather palmar surfaces do quite nicely....

[s/v Beth]

I always thought a self-tailing winch was a medieval waitress that picked up her own dishes...I never thought of the lewd angle...
Must not hang around with enough old barnacles...

[Bash]

On my previous boat all winches were self-tailing, but on the new boat I only specked self-tailers for halyard winches and for jib primaries. The spinnaker primaries are conventional winches, the tails of which I run back to jam cleats near the wheel. This gives me the ability to blow the sheets from the wheel in the event we lose control of the spinnaker, something that I could not do with the old self-tailing system. I find that I don't really miss the ability to self-tail the spinnaker primaries because we rarely use a handle on those winches anyway.