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Old 25-09-2012, 16:26   #46
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

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Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
This depends on many factors as each trip is different. No, $150 per day is not typical and is nowhere near enough for most of us. Could anyone, even if he worked every single day, earn a good living at this?
That's all I was making when I retired. While not a "good" income it is above the median income level for the USA.

I'm not saying you guys are overcharging, I know your job requires great skill. Just sayin.

To keep things in perspective, I've been quoted a price of $120 per hour plus travel time (who the hell gets paid to travel 45 minutes to work!?) to do maintenance work. Now that's a good living!
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Old 25-09-2012, 16:56   #47
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

Good thread! I have only been running professionally for 38 years so bear with me. I will seldom run a boat I do not like, and never work for an owner that I do not "click" with. I am also comfortable enough that I do not do a trip I am not interested in. Sure I turn down more that I do. I actually enjoy some "problem" ie neglected boats as they are a challenge to my mechanical skills. Opinoniated crum muggeon, absolutely! But I have never damaged a boat, nor abandoned a trip. I just refuse the stupid ones! (currently underway)
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Old 25-09-2012, 17:03   #48
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

Forgot to mention that I encourage the owner to be aboard for several reasons with the clear understaing that I make all the decisions. Route, sail plan, watches, navigation, weather calls, etc..
1) I like to teach.
2) Who knows the boat better than the owner (unless it's a new boat)
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Old 25-09-2012, 17:46   #49
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

I often enjoy working with the owner when he comes along as crew. The teaching element is something I enjoy. Typical deliveries for me have been coastal from Portland to the San Juans or the return.

The owners are for the most part competent in their home waters but need a first coastal passage under their belts.

One of the things I do is to work out the watch so as to be on deck when the more complicated parts of the passage are involved and to have the owners and other crew on watch in the easy portions.

By involving the owner (and their brothers....) in the passage planning I get a buy in from them as well as a better owner/crew.

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Old 25-09-2012, 18:08   #50
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
So if I wanted to find a delivery skipper for Cairns - Darwin and Darwin - Bali where should I look?

I know it's a milk run, but at some stage it could be very nice to say "Put the boat in Darwin." or "Take the boat to Bali." Not getting any younger.

And what sort of condition would yous want the boat to be in, what sort of gear on board and how much time is needed?
probably right here!

most of the more experinced skippers like myself will work pretty much internationally,and the availability of cheap rtw tickets only marginally increases costs for repatriation. ex london,

cairns-darwin is a 2 week trip if i remember correctly form the last time i did it,and bali about the same,so 4-6 weeks depending on how long you stop in darwin,or along the way.

generally if the boat has basic safety equipment and is in a seaworthy condition,engine , batterys and nav lights functional ,functional galley and dinghy and engine..,auto pilot nice to have but not essential,as easy to find crew on that route.

nav equipment is not so important as most skippers will bring their own gps,laptop chart plotter,charts if needed,and satellite phone.

the only other thing you need to consider is the indo cruising permit that can take some time to get.

pm me i might be interested if you need someone
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Old 25-09-2012, 18:36   #51
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

EVM 1024! Gulfstar 50! I sailed from Miaim to Portugal via azores in 1983. The Unicorn was Ketch Rigged! Loved that boat!
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Old 25-09-2012, 19:04   #52
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

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France is now considered a low cost destination????????
he has a house on the river there,so would be able to do his own work outside his back door....he just hadn't considered that it might sink on the way there!
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Old 25-09-2012, 21:37   #53
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Owners perspective

As an owner who has had a cat delivered across the pacific, I thought I'd post some comments.

Having engaged two skippers I experienced some of the problems that can occur.
My first skipper was an amateur who had done a circumnavigation in a smaller cat than mine, so what could possibly go wrong.
Unfortunately my own ignorance lead me to believe everything was OK, until after flying him over to the Caribbean from Australia, he announced that the boat was too much for him to handle with the two female crew he had lined up. There had already been a whole list of increasing demands over several months involving money and extra equipment on the boat, which had been met or a compromise had been agreed too.
As a conciliation he offered to take the boat to Panama, which he latter reneged on.
There was a series of emails which I won't go into, but in the end he abandoned the boat in St Martin, which turned out to be good thing.
After arriving in St Martin, we went to a friend of a friend whom within 3 hours had secured the services of a delivery company whom he recommended.
And yes the first thing agreed to was the price!
Which turned out to to be not much more than the amateur wanted (much to his disgust).
Anyway enter the professionals, thank goodness!
I never met the delivery skipper or crew until they got to Noumea, but I was delighted to find the boat in better condition than when I left her due to all the polishing work by the bored crew.
There were some small negatives but considering the length of the voyage I was very happy with the outcome.
Whilst at the time I was a bit frustrated with some of the slow pace of the delivery, I now realize that the extra time meant that the boat was not flogged.
In my view a professional skipper will understand that an owner may not have the experience to appreciate the value of their service when negotiating the initial agreement.
However the owner should be able to appreciate it when the skipper takes some time to explain what is involved.
If a skipper doesn't want to do that they may miss out on work.
The delivery market is very competitive and unless you are lucky or well informed it can go either way for an owner.
Now that I am informed I would have no hesitation in recommending Direct Yacht Deliveries.
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Old 25-09-2012, 22:04   #54
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Re: Owners perspective

Beautiful!!! Great story.
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Old 25-09-2012, 22:08   #55
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

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Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry View Post
EVM 1024! Gulfstar 50! I sailed from Miaim to Portugal via azores in 1983. The Unicorn was Ketch Rigged! Loved that boat!
They are a fine old boat. Ours is a sloop with a 19' boom.

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Old 26-09-2012, 08:25   #56
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Re: Owners perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
As an owner who has had a cat delivered across the pacific, I thought I'd post some comments.

Having engaged two skippers I experienced some of the problems that can occur.
My first skipper was an amateur who had done a circumnavigation in a smaller cat than mine, so what could possibly go wrong.
Unfortunately my own ignorance lead me to believe everything was OK, until after flying him over to the Caribbean from Australia, he announced that the boat was too much for him to handle with the two female crew he had lined up. There had already been a whole list of increasing demands over several months involving money and extra equipment on the boat, which had been met or a compromise had been agreed too.
As a conciliation he offered to take the boat to Panama, which he latter reneged on.
There was a series of emails which I won't go into, but in the end he abandoned the boat in St Martin, which turned out to be good thing.
After arriving in St Martin, we went to a friend of a friend whom within 3 hours had secured the services of a delivery company whom he recommended.
And yes the first thing agreed to was the price!
Which turned out to to be not much more than the amateur wanted (much to his disgust).
Anyway enter the professionals, thank goodness!
I never met the delivery skipper or crew until they got to Noumea, but I was delighted to find the boat in better condition than when I left her due to all the polishing work by the bored crew.
There were some small negatives but considering the length of the voyage I was very happy with the outcome.
Whilst at the time I was a bit frustrated with some of the slow pace of the delivery, I now realize that the extra time meant that the boat was not flogged.
In my view a professional skipper will understand that an owner may not have the experience to appreciate the value of their service when negotiating the initial agreement.
However the owner should be able to appreciate it when the skipper takes some time to explain what is involved.
If a skipper doesn't want to do that they may miss out on work.
The delivery market is very competitive and unless you are lucky or well informed it can go either way for an owner.
Now that I am informed I would have no hesitation in recommending Direct Yacht Deliveries.
Great to hear she got there OK, Dragon Lady. I remember the initial saga you were having and wondered how it all panned out.

I have "rescued" many a failed delivery and find that in most cases, the "amateur" skipper initially engaged, has really not been up for the job - he just wanted a nice cruise on someone else's boat. When they get difficult (as they often do), the amateur really doesnt have the commitment (or balls?) to get the job done.

Other points in this thread - particularly about sailing with / teaching, New Owners. I'm reminded of the car mechanic who says "I'll charge $30/hour but if you want to look over my shoulder all the time, I'll charge $50".

Personally, I love doing "Owner Assists" and have never met an owner who I didn't get on with.

Tony
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Old 26-09-2012, 09:03   #57
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Re: Owners perspective

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Originally Posted by bvimatelot View Post
Great to hear she got there OK, Dragon Lady. I remember the initial saga you were having and wondered how it all panned out.

I have "rescued" many a failed delivery and find that in most cases, the "amateur" skipper initially engaged, has really not been up for the job - he just wanted a nice cruise on someone else's boat. When they get difficult (as they often do), the amateur really doesnt have the commitment (or balls?) to get the job done.

Other points in this thread - particularly about sailing with / teaching, New Owners. I'm reminded of the car mechanic who says "I'll charge $30/hour but if you want to look over my shoulder all the time, I'll charge $50".

Personally, I love doing "Owner Assists" and have never met an owner who I didn't get on with.

Tony

by the same token! i think there was a thread on cf about "professionals"!

BBC News - Yacht delivery firm accused of negligence
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Old 26-09-2012, 09:13   #58
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

Ha!!! Yes, Atholl - and I've "rescued" one of their's too (see my Over the top of Oz thread!)

You do hear horror stories about the larger delivery companies. They pay (and sometimes dont) their skippers peanuts and the skipper foots the bills for fuel and port stops (as well as crew, provisions, etc, etc!). I have also heard that their skipper selection process gets a tad short-circuited when they have a lot of boats to deliver at the same time....but that's only hearsay.

However, This can often get the Owner a skipper who will only run the engine at low rpm to save his fuel costs, forgetting that a diesel wants to be under load and so, well, you know what happens to the cylinders!

Tony
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Old 26-09-2012, 09:31   #59
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

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Hola Bash,

Can you elaborate on the damages? Operator error? Poor maintenance record?

At first blush trucking costs can appear to be an advantage
Trucking isn't a panacea.

I had my boat trucked from Florida to California. I put everything away down below. I stayed around while the was pulled from the water and the mast was pulled off. Then left.

When I got it in San Diego, I found that even though I dogged it down some how the forward hatch blew off and as a result it was busted and everything down below was blown all over the place and covered in a layer of sand.
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Old 26-09-2012, 11:50   #60
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Re: Using a Delivery Skipper / Crew - Tips & Advice (and Horror Stories!)

For an owner looking for a delivery crew, I stongly recommend findacrew.net. The site is well designed allowing you to spell out your situation, expectations, pay scale, etc. I received at least 150 responses to my posting.

In the end though, I found my co-captain right on the dock where Palarran had been tied up for the previous two years. It couldn't have worked better for him or me as he was there and wanted to go where I was going, so travel expenses where eliminated. I asked him how much he wanted to do the delivery and he threw out a number which I imediately increased by $500 becuase of the no airfare situation. In addition, I paid him $10/hour to do deep cleaning/polishing, waxing, etc work which made him an additional $500 during the delivery and I paid him a $400 tip/bonus.

He was a great captain, did a great job, and we parted after 7 weeks together as good friends. I'd recommend him to other owners. In regard to the no alcohol policy, we didn't drink while underway but made up for it in Horta, Gibraltar, and Ibiza. Another major bonus was this guy could cook. We ate like kings every day and all we had to do was the dishes. Quite a bargan.

One tip I would have for owners is to look local if possible. If not, I'd suggest trying to have the crew put some skin in the game. It is very easy to blow off a job at the last minute with no loss for the crew. If they have to purchase their outbound plane ticket, you can be more assured that they will actually show up. You can then reimburse them when they arrive. Referance checks are good to a point but after making many inquiries, you find that some e-mail addresses have changed, phone numbers are not connected, and they could be faked fairly easily.
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