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Old 18-12-2011, 11:50   #46
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

Being only a cruiser type in no huge hurry, I solved the problem for me by not using a lazy sheet! If we decide to change course I just pull the sock down, gybe, move the sheet over and let it back out. For us dealing with the lazy sheet was more trouble than what is worth and we can live with the short term speed loss to avoid lazy sheet problems.
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Old 18-12-2011, 11:58   #47
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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Originally Posted by sea1ljs View Post

Now a question for you experts. Having flown the spinny outside the forestay, like the whole sailing world seems to do, how does one keep the lazy sheet from falling off the deck and running over it. I had that happen to me on my previous boat and fouled the rudder at a very inappropriate time. Since then I fly the "A" spinny inside the forestay which of course makes gybing a little more difficult. Keeping some tension on the lazy sheet to keep the line from falling in the water appears to be the solution when flying the sail. However when the sail slides around at times while flying the lazy sheet pulls on the sail and chafes the furled up genny. What am I missing here.
Right after the gybe, I verify that the lazy sheet is laying over the pulpit. I then put the lazy sheet on the deck inside the lifelines; near the cockpit it then goes back over the lifeline to the block. On another forum someone has suggested taping the lazy sheet to the pulpit. The force of the gybe will release the sheet from the tape.
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Old 18-12-2011, 12:06   #48
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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Originally Posted by sea1ljs View Post
Now a question for you experts. Having flown the spinny outside the forestay, like the whole sailing world seems to do, how does one keep the lazy sheet from falling off the deck and running over it. I had that happen to me on my previous boat and fouled the rudder at a very inappropriate time. Since then I fly the "A" spinny inside the forestay which of course makes gybing a little more difficult. Keeping some tension on the lazy sheet to keep the line from falling in the water appears to be the solution when flying the sail. However when the sail slides around at times while flying the lazy sheet pulls on the sail and chafes the furled up genny. What am I missing here.
An expert is just someone who has run over the sheet enough times to figure out how to avoid it.

First of all, I sheet outside in moderate to heavy breeze, but inside in light air. That will save you a lot of grief.

In a moderate breeze timing is everything. Blow the sheet first, before you begin the gybe from the wheel. It will stream out forward of the headstay, at which point you turn hard under the chute while the other sheet is being snugged. This is a lot easier to do with four crew than three, and with three crew than two. (With two, we usually gybe the chute and main separately.) But with four crew, leave the sheet release person in place to take up slack on the lazy sheet once the sail has cleared the centerline.

In a heavy breeze, do a sock gybe.
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Old 18-12-2011, 13:19   #49
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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Wing on wing may be appropriate on a full keel bat. The wallowing tendency of a a fin keel boat would result in me going on a broad reach with a genoa.
True, but some people are determined to sail DDW. I'm not one of them, unless it's light air and I won't wallow (as much).
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Old 18-12-2011, 13:25   #50
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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Originally Posted by sea1ljs View Post
Now a question for you experts. Having flown the spinny outside the forestay, like the whole sailing world seems to do, how does one keep the lazy sheet from falling off the deck and running over it. I had that happen to me on my previous boat and fouled the rudder at a very inappropriate time. Since then I fly the "A" spinny inside the forestay which of course makes gybing a little more difficult. Keeping some tension on the lazy sheet to keep the line from falling in the water appears to be the solution when flying the sail. However when the sail slides around at times while flying the lazy sheet pulls on the sail and chafes the furled up genny. What am I missing here.
By no means am I an expert, but I do keep both lazy and weather sheets with a turn or two around the aft winches and ready to put in a clam cleat. The lazy sheet is never fully eased, therefore, just left slack. There's enough of it to hang on the lifeline and curve off the boat, but not enough to go in the water.

As a safety measure, however, I NEVER put stopper knots in any spin sheet. I've had sudden gusts from aft I didn't see in time and the solution is to "let 'em fly" and sort it out later. Even with the main as "emergency blanket", you may not have time or wit to do the proper helming. Let them run out.

Just my .02.
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Old 18-12-2011, 13:34   #51
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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As a safety measure, however, I NEVER put stopper knots in any spin sheet. I've had sudden gusts from aft I didn't see in time and the solution is to "let 'em fly" and sort it out later. Even with the main as "emergency blanket", you may not have time or wit to do the proper helming. Let them run out.

Just my .02.
Absolutley
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Old 18-12-2011, 14:12   #52
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Anyone point me in the right direction to calculate optimum sailing angles downwind? Maybe software for iPhone, iPad or pc, Mac or windows7?
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Old 18-12-2011, 14:55   #53
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

Bazzer your sail is a driffter, hank on to go up wind in light air . It can be flown free down wind unhanked but it has a small head area like a jib not a full shape of a spinnaker.
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Old 18-12-2011, 17:16   #54
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

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Anyone point me in the right direction to calculate optimum sailing angles downwind? Maybe software for iPhone, iPad or pc, Mac or windows7?
They are called polars. You can buy them from US Sailing, among other places. Some of the software, like Expedition, is also costly.
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Old 18-12-2011, 17:48   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash

An expert is just someone who has run over the sheet enough times to figure out how to avoid it.

First of all, I sheet outside in moderate to heavy breeze, but inside in light air. That will save you a lot of grief.

In a moderate breeze timing is everything. Blow the sheet first, before you begin the gybe from the wheel. It will stream out forward of the headstay, at which point you turn hard under the chute while the other sheet is being snugged. This is a lot easier to do with four crew than three, and with three crew than two. (With two, we usually gybe the chute and main separately.) But with four crew, leave the sheet release person in place to take up slack on the lazy sheet once the sail has cleared the centerline.

In a heavy breeze, do a sock gybe.
+1

For me managing spinnakers is largely number of (experienced) crew dependent. Anything fewer than 4 on the boat for me is considered short handed. Control is key. With 2 on board you need to develop strategies to reduce workload and keep things in control. The Asym on a sprit, tacker, sock, furler is a great workload reducer compared to a full symetrtical with pole and all that jazz.

Sometimes a cruiser is not flying the optimum sail due to workload. You won't see too many racers sailing deep with an asym.
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Old 18-12-2011, 18:12   #56
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

If you rally want to see some screw-ups, just youtube the word spinnaker.

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Old 18-12-2011, 18:40   #57
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

Bazzer,

It depends on your boat. Of course if you know your boatspeed for any given wind angle it's simply a matter of trigonometry to figure the optimum VMG to windward or leeward. You can use a calculator or any online app. You can get your boatspeed for any given wind angle from your designer's polar diagram, unique to your boat.

Better yet, just experiment sailing your boat downwind at different angles in different velocities / sail configurations. You can feed the data into a calculator, or you can read the VMG on your plotter / sailing instruments.

Slower, heavy displacement boats typically do best pointing deeper or DDW. Multihulls and planing boats benefit from sailing higher and faster. Others in between. Higher wind speeds mean you can sail deeper, and in lighter winds you sail higher (up in the lulls, down in the puffs).
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Old 19-12-2011, 08:50   #58
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

Of course, sea conditions apply. If I had light enough air to use a spin, but six to eight foot "leftover" waves that would bugger up the flow, I would not use the spinnaker because I would a) not feel capable of keeping a decent track, and b) getting pooped with a spin up would likely disturb my mood.
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Old 19-12-2011, 09:42   #59
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Re: Using a Asymmetrical Chute Downwind?

John Goode of Southern Sailing wrote an article on how to use a cruising chute downwind with a pole for Yachting Monthly. The upcoming London Boat Show will have a boat set up to demonstrate the method complete with fans for the full effect.

It might not be a perfect solution but proves it can be done.
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