US Navy destroyer collision

[hpeer]

If they weren’t swamped with data then what was their excuse? Not saying you are wrong in any way. Just that your explanation makes it even worse on the bridge crew. Makes them seem even more incompetent, if possible.

If Inwere going to do their crossing I would have looked at the charts and reviewed the normal traffic patterns and developed a route that put me at minimum risk of a bad ending. Some kind of informal pre-trip planning and risk assessment. Is that kind of thing ever done on Navy ships? I would think it would be SOP, ESPECIALLY because it would be a useful training tool.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Some kind of informal pre-trip planning and risk assessment. Is that kind of thing ever done on Navy ships? I would think it would be SOP, ESPECIALLY because it would be a useful training tool.

From what it appears neither the Bridge team nor CIC knew they were heading into traffic lanes. In other navies, the Navigating Officer would have laid down the route and made notes of any such issues - this would have been briefed to and approved by the CO. In the USN, the job of Navigator is typically a secondary duty give to a JG; they don't have any extra training, and the level of competence varies greatly.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

From what it appears neither the Bridge team nor CIC knew they were heading into traffic lanes. In other navies, the Navigating Officer would have laid down the route and made notes of any such issues - this would have been briefed to and approved by the CO. In the USN, the job of Navigator is typically a secondary duty give to a JG; they don't have any extra training, and the level of competence varies greatly.

If that is true then that explains a LOT.

An old axiom is “90% of success is showing up.” These guys are getting lost enroute.

[Chas.7]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I have the exact opposite experience. On my destroyer, 1974-78, the OOD was always a full LT. The JOOD was either a LTjg or Ensign. Many Ensigns had to qualify before they could stand alone. So, we would often have three officers.

It makes me wonder what type of training they receive. I remember in the 80's a Coast Guard vessel cut in front of a ship. People died. The Coast Guard did not require their officers to know the Rule of the Road. A subject everyone else must get a 90 to past. I'm sure the reprimand is career ending
Sad.

[DumnMad]

Here we go again, Norwegion warship this time passing too close and the little ship gets sucked into the big one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46150048

[JPA Cate]

Big oops!

I do not really have a good understanding of the "suction" issue. Nonetheless, it certainly seems to be a factor in some collisions.

Ann

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Big oops!

I do not really have a good understanding of the "suction" issue. Nonetheless, it certainly seems to be a factor in some collisions.

Ann

Hi Ann this explains ship interaction
https://youtu.be/niAnMR9WBLA


There is also a bank cushion effect that can cause your stern to swing in towards the bank.

I don't know if that was the case as I haven't seen a chart of the location, but poor ship handling by the navy crew, is definitely the cause when passing such a big tanker in confined waters.
I really think the navy guys should be put on big commercial ships for training as supernumeraries to learn a few things nautical.

Perhaps then, their responses when questioned about intentions, would not be so arrogant !

[DumnMad]

Heres another illustration, this time when overtaking.
Remember one of those US Navy ships commented on stearing difficulties - it was nothing but them getting too close. Men died because of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq8EQVl7GG0

[El Pinguino]

The only interaction I see on the GCaptain vid is when the outbound tanker's bow pokes a hole in the stbd side of the inbound warship...... https://gcaptain.com/video-ais-anima...egian-frigate/ ...

Classic interaction in open waters ( which is what this effectively occured in ) typically involves overtaking situations....

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Big oops!

I do not really have a good understanding of the "suction" issue. Nonetheless, it certainly seems to be a factor in some collisions.

Ann

Ann, it’s Bernoulli’s principle, it’s what sucks gas out of the carburetor bowl when an engine is running and what generates lift on a wing.
https://youtu.be/uZXqnyVY-bM

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The only interaction I see on the GCaptain vid is when the outbound tanker's bow pokes a hole in the stbd side of the inbound warship.......

Yep, the stern of the warship got dragged onto the bulbous bow of the tanker.
As A64 says, Bernoulli effect.
Ship's pilots taking ships through narrow channels know it well as 'squat' and 'shore proximity effects'.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Yep, the stern of the warship got dragged onto the bulbous bow of the tanker.
As A64 says, Bernoulli effect.
Ship's pilots taking ships through narrow channels know it well as 'squat' and 'shore proximity effects'.

So... stern of warship got dragged onto bow of tanker as warship was crossing from port to stbd ( as seen from tanker )..... OK - whatever...

Where this occured is neither a narrow channel nor shallow water..... check it out on OpenCPN...

'Pilot Exempt' Masters of large cargo ro-ros also know about squat and shore proximity effects......

[El Pinguino]

From an un-verified Norwegian source..

'This happened in a VTS zone close to an oil terminal.
The frigate 17 knots, tanker 6 knots on close to head on course.
Starboard anchor on the tanker ripped open the hull outside the engine room on starboard side of the frigate.
Observers claim the frigate was dark.
The tanker saw the frigate 3 minutes before impact and the pilot tried to contact the oncoming vessel.
One minute before impact they had radio contact but the frigate could or would not change course...
Happened around the time watch crew on the bridge was changed on the frigate..'

[DumnMad]

Bernoulli effect lift does not need a narrow channel, just needs proximity and is much stronger if the water is shallow.
Here's a full scale collision to demonstrate the almost unbelievable effect. The guy who took the video obviously knew a lot more about the effect than most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ktwo-k-onk

[DumnMad]

Here's a cargo vessel collision that wasn't in a canal. Overtaking vessel had good clearance but not enough for the length of time the Bernoulli effect was in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmDybTIxrJc