Two anchors, one rode - best practice?

[JOHNMARDALL]

My main concerns would be:
1. How to handle and control this tandem anchor rig on the foredeck, especially in rough conditions.
2. The risk of it getting tangled up while being lowered and set, possibly leaving you with no working anchor.
On balance, I think you're best off with one correctly sized anchor and as much chain as you can afford. All chain or plenty of chain to keep the shank of the anchor flat on the ground will do you more good and be more manageable than a tandem anchor, I think
Good luck
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by meirriba

Tandem anchoring may not be the solution, but carrying one extra-large anchor is not the solution either.
All I asked for was an analysis of the technique involved.

With one very heavy anchor, I would have the extra weight to deploy every time when I really need it once in a blue moon.
On the other hand, I would anyway need a second anchor for the versatility it provides - Bahamian mooring, second anchor from the stern, replacement to the main if lost etc.

The flaw in this thinking is assuming that stable weather will remain stable. I wouldn't drop a lunch hook because it was nice, and intend it to remain nice for a week. If the weather takes a turn, I don't want to be hauling and deploying anchors to 'tune' my ground tackle to the weather conditions.

You're making the assumption that deploying a heavier anchor takes more time and effort. It would be he same time and effort to kick a 40 lb anchor off of the pulpit as it would to kick off a 20lb anchor.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by StuM

What's the weight difference between one humungous anchor and two "ordinary" anchors?

As much as you wish.
We sail with 25Kg Delta on the bow, never dragged in winds up to 40Kn. Spare Fortress type of 15KG, which I may replace with another 25KG Delta. The
Several years ago, I have left the boat for a month on anchor with one 50Kg anchor - this will be 'humongous'...
I may change my current bower with a 30Kg unit, but would not want to sail around with 35-40Kg to drop and raise every day or so.

[foojin]

A friend once had a setup in which he connected two anchors by a short length of chain.

On the dock it looked as wonderful and effective as the drawings that you see all over the Internet

On the water deployment from his anchor roller was a nightmare.

Retrieval was worse. He had to deploy a dinghy to collect the bottom anchor which he could not lift by hand once the first anchor was in the roller.

After an initial test, he never used it again.

Perhaps in a tropical storm. Otherwise get a proper anchor.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by Shrew

The flaw in this thinking is assuming that stable weather will remain stable. I wouldn't drop a lunch hook because it was nice, and intend it to remain nice for a week. If the weather takes a turn, I don't want to be hauling and deploying anchors to 'tune' my ground tackle to the weather conditions.

You're making the assumption that deploying a heavier anchor takes more time and effort. It would be he same time and effort to kick a 40 lb anchor off of the pulpit as it would to kick off a 20lb anchor.

The weather changes for sure. But within limits. At least where we sail presently (Turkey, Greece). We have adequate anchor for 'normal' bad weather.
The problem with large anchor is not deployment. As our present anchor is already 25Kg, it will not be very easy to raise it manually - we had to do it for a week this summer. If we go up a measure, what then?
I am sure that you do not prepare your boat for hurricane conditions every time you prepare to spend a nigh on anchor.
The idea behind my query was to study another option to use, that's all...
.

[Olddave]

Originally Posted by meirriba

I have never done that, and I wonder what is the best way to connect two anchors on one rode (chain) to enhance anchoring in strong wind.

Two of my friends, both with extensive cruising experience, have differing opinions.
One proposed to connect the secondary anchor about 2 meters (~7 feet) distance behind the main one. The other guy firmly proposes to connect them together, with the stock of the forward one connected by two shackles to the crown of the aft one (he adds a buoy to the crown of the forward anchor for ease of recovery).

Any wisdom will be appreciated.
Please do not write advice on using two rodes...different matter that deserves its own thread

Jerry Clark wrote Totorore Voyage. I recommend it as one of the most amazing sailing adventure books ever written, it is up there with Shackletons Boat Journey, although it has quite a different ending!
Jerry sailled in high latitudes for many years. He deliberately anchored in the places most people avoid, in order to count seabirds nesting in their colonies. Get a copy.
He used two anchors 6 metres apart all the time. He very rarely dragged, even though he commonly experienced hurricane force winds. Totorore was often knocked down 90 degrees by the Sassafras while anchored.
Jerry obviously thought tandem anchors was worth the effort, who am I to question.
Dave.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by meirriba

As much as you wish.
We sail with 25Kg Delta on the bow, never dragged in winds up to 40Kn. Spare Fortress type of 15KG, which I may replace with another 25KG Delta. The
Several years ago, I have left the boat for a month on anchor with one 50Kg anchor - this will be 'humongous'...
I may change my current bower with a 30Kg unit, but would not want to sail around with 35-40Kg to drop and raise every day or so.

What's the difference between carrying around two 25kg anchors and one 50kg anchor, other than that with the 50kg you have about five times the maximum holding power? Heck switch to a 45kg anchor and a 5kg windlass and make your life easier and safer.

This has been hashed out to death, but holding power goes up exponentially with size. Double the anchor size and you increase the holding power by ^3 not double. This is why almost all modern references suggest one massive bower anchor, with a spare (collapsible) and kedge.

[gjordan]

Do you not have a windlass???? Changing from a 25kg anchor to a 35 kg anchor is not a problem at all with a proper windlass and you are only adding about 20 lbs to your bow. A 20 lb difference is not humongus. If you are anchoring an expensive boat of that size without a windlass, then going to a smaller anchor and/or multiples is not the answer. ______Grant.

[Ken Z]

For over 30 years ive used a grapnel and a danforth both with 20' of chain. when conditions warrens, i set the danforth and bury it, motor up at about a 35 degree angle drop the grapnel back down and bury it. have never had an issue, and there are better ones on the market today, i see alot of boats with too small an anchor, it is nice to have a lite lunch hook. l love my grapnel.

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by meirriba

The question why do I need to carry a humongous anchor at all times when the need for extra weight may be necessary only once in long while.
I have asked about tandem anchoring as it seems a useful technique to add to the arsenal of anchoring tools.

Carrying an anchor sized to bad conditions is also called being prepared. I doubt that your unproven 2 small anchor strategy would impress your insurance company if trouble strikes and bad things never happen when you are expecting them. If you must save weight carry less water. At 8.3 #/gal its can be significant.

[Lammert]

For the last two years I have used a WEMAR tandem anchor on my Hanse 495.
I resorted to this after a number of hair raising drags with the standard 25 kg Delta. The experience has been generally positive in that my holding has been much improved. The inherent disadvantage is that one needs a fairly experienced crew member on the bow to handle the system. I now want to change back to a single anchor (Rocna 33kg) as I will not have continued access to my experienced crew member.

[Captain Denis]

Hi there,
I read all these comments and I wonder why anybody haven't asked about the composition of the rode? It is a practice in the U.S. to have only a few feet of chain followed by rope. This type of anchoring system puts a lot of stress on the anchor itself in strong winds. I go by the theory that if you have an ALL LARGE CHAIN anchoring system and you follow the known rule of letting go between 5 to 7 times the depth depending on the condition of the bottom and the wind, you will not slip because the chain will ride up and down in wind gusts and the anchor itself may never be stressed. Just a theory that I went by for 30 years half of the time living at anchor. I slipped once. My fault because I did not take the time to dive and look at the composition of the bottom and check if the anchor was properly set.
No need for two anchors unless you want to limit the angle of swing in tight anchorages.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

That illustrates that a single anchor, properly sized, and appropriate for the bottom type, can also be extremely effective.

Ok, thats my 2c....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

Correct solution.

Evans doesn't think much of tandem anchoring. I trust him more than Sail magazine, and I have that artcile from when it was originally published.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Captain Denis

Hi there,
...............................
............................... It is a practice in the U.S. to have only a few feet of chain followed by rope.

Quite a blatant assertion that bears little resemblance to experiences of mine.

While a mixed rode is prevalent, more and more folks are using all chain.

"Just a few feet" is also not my experience. Most folks I know who use mixed rode have at least the length of the boat in chain, not just a few feet.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Do you not have a windlass???? Changing from a 25kg anchor to a 35 kg anchor is not a problem at all with a proper windlass and you are only adding about 20 lbs to your bow. A 20 lb difference is not humongus. If you are anchoring an expensive boat of that size without a windlass, then going to a smaller anchor and/or multiples is not the answer. ______Grant.

I have a windlass.
What do you do if your windlass malfunctions and you need to raise 45kg anchor by hand?
25KG anchor is not exactly small for a boat of ~12t. It is normal in my eyes, and worked fine for the last 5-6 years.
I have already stated my opinion, that I prefer to use once in a long while two anchors instead of using all the time highly oversized one.
Anyway - I read and learn from all the answers