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Old 15-05-2015, 18:34   #1
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Tossing the wind vane

A few years back I watched a sailing buddy of mine install a new monitor wind vane. After his first season in the Caribbean he has decided to replace it with davits for his dink. The simplicity of the davits is a fair trade for a vane he doesn't use.

Although a simple apparatus, the few vendors that are out there want a pretty penny for they're product.

Although my full keel center cockpit with hydraulic steering limits my options and from many reviews those options do not perform adequately, I occasionally play with the idea of temporarily installing an external rudder just to see for myself.

I would love to add one to my rig but only if will carry its weight.

Are there many that found there vane to be a better ornament than crew member?

Are there any that can brag on their vane that own vessels similar to mine?






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Old 15-05-2015, 19:00   #2
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

With hydraulic steering you are pretty much confined to an auxillary rudder self steering system like WindPilot Pacific Plus, Hydrovane or others of that type. Have the WPP plus on my boat. If the sails are up, the vane is steering. Did a TransPac in light conditions for that route. Most of the sail was DDW with around 8k relative wind. Vane handled the boat without a problem.

You can use a pendulum servo type vane with hydraulic steering if you can hook the vane to a stub tiller on the rudder stock and have a bypass valve on the hydraulic steering. The slippage in hydraulic steering makes for constant tinkering with heading if a PS vane is hooked to the wheel.

Have done more than 10,000 miles of ocean voyaging, about 99% steered by a vane and the rest by my wife.
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Old 15-05-2015, 19:01   #3
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Use mine all the time offshore... can't imagine life without it.

Not sure what the issues would be with hydraulic steering.

Mine is an aux rudder with trim tab and vertical axis vane... no connections to the ship's wheel at all.

If I was buying one from a shop I would go for the Hydrovane.
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Old 15-05-2015, 19:19   #4
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Valiant 40- kinda like your boat. I have davits and a windvane. Use the davits when Island hopping, Vane when offshore.
Each to his own.
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Old 15-05-2015, 19:22   #5
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

We must have the worst possible windvane around and yet I would NEVER sail without one. I did. I know what I am talking about. And it is a two men boat here.

So, I think, it is all up to what type of sailing you want to do. Offshore, on a long passage, nothing beats the quiet, steady and electricity-independent work of a windvane.

Then again, once you buy a windvane, you may also want a boat that goes with it.

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Old 15-05-2015, 20:04   #6
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Valiant 40- kinda like your boat. I have davits and a windvane. Use the davits when Island hopping, Vane when offshore.
Each to his own.

I figure that "kinda" a complement. I am a fan of the Valiant 40. My old gal sure won't sail with yours but so far I get where I am going.

The boat that is removing the vane happens to be a late model Valiant and his reasoning is for island hopping.

I haven't met any passage making sailors that use a HydroVane but have looked at a couple on boats, examined their docs and watched the brochure films.




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Old 15-05-2015, 20:17   #7
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I need some more explainin' about why windvanes can't be used with hydraulic steering?

I don't have much experience with them, but the ones I have seen that use the ship's rudder connect to a drum on the steering wheel. I don't understand why this would matter for hydraulic steering any more than it does for cable steering, or geared steering, or…

??

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Old 15-05-2015, 20:24   #8
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
........
I haven't met any passage making sailors that use a HydroVane but have looked at a couple on boats, examined their docs and watched the brochure films.
Over the last few years I've seen many more Hydrovanes and Cap Horns than Monitors... I think taking bits of string back to your wheel is a bit 'passe' these days.

I have no idea what the issues are with hydraulic steering or even if there are issues.
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Old 15-05-2015, 20:26   #9
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I have hydraulic steering as well. I Have a Navman 3380 and I love it. I even named him Fred. If you switched your vane for davits, your options are limited. I found the 3380 to be the best bang for my buck. I've had Fred aboard for 6 years now.
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Old 15-05-2015, 20:31   #10
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Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
With hydraulic steering you are pretty much confined to an auxillary rudder self steering system like WindPilot Pacific Plus, Hydrovane or others of that type. Have the WPP plus on my boat. If the sails are up, the vane is steering. Did a TransPac in light conditions for that route. Most of the sail was DDW with around 8k relative wind. Vane handled the boat without a problem.

You can use a pendulum servo type vane with hydraulic steering if you can hook the vane to a stub tiller on the rudder stock and have a bypass valve on the hydraulic steering. The slippage in hydraulic steering makes for constant tinkering with heading if a PS vane is hooked to the wheel.

Have done more than 10,000 miles of ocean voyaging, about 99% steered by a vane and the rest by my wife.

Thanks for the reply.

Disabling the wheel to use the Vane made the trim tab style a no-go in my book.

While it would be nice to have in light conditions, all to often I find myself in less that perfect conditions and would hope the vane could handle them with properly trimmed sails.

It took a few years and a series of mods but my (now) belowdecks AP will hold a course in most any weather. In big confused seas I have to set the response level way up.

I am toying with dual kick up aux rudders close to the transom similar to a cat rig but me taking the time to work out the kinks isn't likely.

I'd rather be sailing

I will take a closer look at the WPP.

Thanks again.


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Old 15-05-2015, 20:38   #11
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Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I need some more explainin' about why windvanes can't be used with hydraulic steering?

I don't have much experience with them, but the ones I have seen that use the ship's rudder connect to a drum on the steering wheel. I don't understand why this would matter for hydraulic steering any more than it does for cable steering, or geared steering, orů

??

Mark

Turning the wheel left from 0 to 10 with 1/2 turn of wheel. Turn the the wheel right 3/4 turn back to 0.

Pump puts out same volume but piston/cylinder takes more volume on side without shaft to move same distance.


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Old 15-05-2015, 20:41   #12
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
. I think taking bits of string back to your wheel is a bit 'passe' these days.
I have lots of "strings", halyards, sheets, topping lift, outhaul, first reef, second reef, lazy jacks, preventers......even a couple from my Monitor to the wheel
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Old 15-05-2015, 20:56   #13
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Turning the wheel left from 0 to 10 with 1/2 turn of wheel. Turn the the wheel right 3/4 turn back to 0.

Pump puts out same volume but piston/cylinder takes more volume on side without shaft to move same distance.
So with hydraulic steering, the midship rudder position relative to a point on the wheel is constantly moving about as one steers? The wheel keeps creeping to the right in your example?

My experience with hydraulic steering on sailboats is limited to only a handful of boats, but I never noticed this happening. It seems like it would be very noticeable that the wheel was creeping 1/4 turn each time it was used to turn the boat 10*. Heck, a short daysail would have the wheel spinning several times.

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Old 15-05-2015, 20:59   #14
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
So with hydraulic steering, the midship rudder position relative to a point on the wheel is constantly moving about as one steers? The wheel keeps creeping to the right in your example?



My experience with hydraulic steering on sailboats is limited to only a handful of boats, but I never noticed this happening. It seems like it would be very noticeable that the wheel was creeping 1/4 turn each time it was used to turn the boat 10*. Heck, a short daysail would have the wheel spinning several times.



Mark

One of my first projects was to install a rudder angle indicator.

My example was pointed toward understanding as opposed to accuracy.


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Old 15-05-2015, 21:03   #15
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
My example was pointed toward understanding as opposed to accuracy.
OK, understood.

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