Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-05-2015, 11:27   #61
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,705
Re: Tossing the wind vane

I just want to add that Jim's homemade auxiliary rudder type windvane successfully steered that boat over 100,000 miles. It was silent in operation, and got its power from the wind, thus cutting down on electrical demand.

Ann
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 12:04   #62
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,461
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I just want to add that Jim's homemade auxiliary rudder type windvane successfully steered that boat over 100,000 miles. It was silent in operation, and got its power from the wind, thus cutting down on electrical demand.

Ann
Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 12:16   #63
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I can't remember hearing complaints from people who have tillers on their boats. I did hear some now and then from those with wheels.

Not sure why so many small boats have wheels. Tiller give so much more feedback and so much more cockpit space.

Maybe some winvane lovers can convert their boats to tiller. I have seen tiller ports on some wheel steered boats.

b.
A windvane coupled to a tiller can be a match made in Heaven... Even on an old IOR-style boat like mine :-) I can't imagine owning a boat without a vane, even for coastal cruising, I find mine amazingly effective, and it's simply a pleasure to watch, being such an elegant use of wind and water, the very essence of what sailing is all about... And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)





Vane Lovers are definitely a dying breed, however... I think the only way to prevent their eventual extinction, is if someone figures out a means of interfacing windvanes to chartplotters, to steer to waypoints and follow 'Routes' the way autopilots can...

:-)
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 12:47   #64
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)

Vane Lovers are definitely a dying breed, however... I think the only way to prevent their eventual extinction, is if someone figures out a means of interfacing windvanes to chartplotters, to steer to waypoints and follow 'Routes' the way autopilots can...

:-)
Our below-deck linear drive is dead quiet - can't hear it with your head right over it. You must have been on some unusually noisy ones?

I don't think it is vane lovers who are the dying breed, I suspect it is boats that are suitably controlled by vanes that are the breed in peril. Catamarans are simply out for obvious reasons, of course, but vanes can be problematic driving modern mono designs due to response time and rapid speed changes.

Unless someone figures out a way to get people to gravitate back to slower, heavier, less responsive boats….

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 14:50   #65
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim


As a couple of members (and a couple) you folks crack me up!

Made me chuckle. Also nice was the way Ann fondly remembers the work of her man. "Stand by your man…or wind vane.."
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 14:56   #66
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
A windvane coupled to a tiller can be a match made in Heaven... Even on an old IOR-style boat like mine :-) I can't imagine owning a boat without a vane, even for coastal cruising, I find mine amazingly effective, and it's simply a pleasure to watch, being such an elegant use of wind and water, the very essence of what sailing is all about... And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)

SNIP...
:-)


I know that feeling. I spent many hours sitting next to a Monitor at work. I also felt it was like the boat was alive and steering itself. The subtle changes as the vane moves and the gentle motion with the wind. It was elegant, and I felt "integral" or "organic" to the boat, a part of it, unlike the autopilot which seemed more like a gadget.

I suppose it had to do with the use of wind that made me feel that way, and the simplicity of the design too.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 15:24   #67
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: 1999 Leopard 45, 45 foot cat, 1980 Hunter 33, 33 foot monohull
Posts: 405
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post


I know that feeling. I spent many hours sitting next to a Monitor at work. I also felt it was like the boat was alive and steering itself. The subtle changes as the vane moves and the gentle motion with the wind. It was elegant, and I felt "integral" or "organic" to the boat, a part of it, unlike the autopilot which seemed more like a gadget.

I suppose it had to do with the use of wind that made me feel that way, and the simplicity of the design too.
Totally agree! My previous boat, a 33 foot fin keeler, was at one with her windvane. I used the Monitor even if I was simply going out in the harbor. With an Autopilot, unless you have a "windvane" option, you are always either trimming sails (the AWA is always shifting back on forth) or you are always slightly out of trim. With a windvane, the boat gets in her groove and stays there. The boat sails better and is more comfortable and quicker, let alone more quiet. On that boat, couldn't imagine being without one.
__________________
contrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 16:11   #68
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Did you mean 36,000 lbs?
72,000 # = 36 tons. We start with 7000 # of fuel & water. Boat is old school built in 1983, 1-1/2 inch glass hull below water. The main mast is 2000 # with 3/4" stays.

Other problems related to wind steer is a mizzen boom overhang, & tiny pinched in transom. When I replace the Simrad ancient autopilot computer this year I will probably buy two in order to have a spare. Still less money than a wind steer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MUSKEGON CHANNEL 3 CROPPED.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	407.4 KB
ID:	102662   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1498 ex.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	404.6 KB
ID:	102663  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF3817.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	405.1 KB
ID:	102664   Click image for larger version

Name:	MYC on Sailstace.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	280.9 KB
ID:	102665  

__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 17:31   #69
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Our below-deck linear drive is dead quiet - can't hear it with your head right over it. You must have been on some unusually noisy ones?
That could be... Or, perhaps yours is an 'unusually quiet' one? :-)

Sure, I've run some that were not bad at all... Others, not so much. And tillerpilots can be some of the worst offenders of all, with the motor placed right in the ram, mine can really get on my nerves after awhile...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I don't think it is vane lovers who are the dying breed, I suspect it is boats that are suitably controlled by vanes that are the breed in peril. Catamarans are simply out for obvious reasons, of course, but vanes can be problematic driving modern mono designs due to response time and rapid speed changes.

Unless someone figures out a way to get people to gravitate back to slower, heavier, less responsive boats….

Mark
I dunno, I think the difficulty a good servo-pendulum vane allegedly has in coping with today's 'faster' cruising boats is often overstated. As you've noted, it's not the speed alone that plays havoc with a vane, but rather the variation in speed due to a boat's capacity for acceleration as a result of surfing that alters the apparent wind the vane is seeing appreciably. Sure, there are a relative handful out there cruising in boats like Pogos and the like, but most folks that I see out there today are not sailing boats that easily sustain surfing speeds in cruising trim, or are capable of such rapid acceleration. Besides, once most boats start surfing routinely, it's often time to start thinking about hand steering anyway, or switching to a smart AP. Looking thru the entry lists of cruising rallies like the Caribbean 1500 and Salty Dawgs, for instance, I don't think I ever come across boats that might be too 'fast', or too 'responsive', for a servo-pendulum vane... Rather, they tend to be simply pushing the upper limits of size and displacement, or possess other 'restrictions' that would preclude the fitting of a vane...

Like this, for example... :-)





Barrett Holby won the 1999 Bermuda 1-2 sailing a Quest 33 - probably still a far 'sportier' boat than most performance cruisers of today - fitted with a Sailomat 601... If it was up to the task of steering a boat like that while racing to Bermuda and back, seems it would be capable of handling most of today's generation of production Flexible Flyers loaded for cruising :-)


__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 18:29   #70
Registered User
 
funjohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Currently Indiantown FL
Boat: 37' aluminum pilothouse "Elements"
Posts: 1,847
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Our autopilot is dead silent too.

I've got to say that this group is the rare lot that actually uses the windvane in harbor/coastal sailing. I've yet to actually witness anyone sitting back and letting their windvane steer close to shore that wasn't just coming off a passage.

Just like I wouldn't go to sea with just one autopilot, I also wouldn't go with only a windvane. I've seen too many people looking for a welder to repair their vane to count them as 100% either.

Matt
__________________
MJSailing.com - Written Blog
Youtube MJ sailing - Vlog
funjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 18:34   #71
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,705
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim
Actually, my dear, I believe it was more than 50k mi., but to avoid arguing in a public forum, I'll have to say, maybe you're right!

A.

Okay, now all you guys, laugh out loud, please!
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 19:57   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,949
Re: Tossing the wind vane

As I said, vanes are very cool and do a first class job of steering most mono hull boats under 50 feet and yes a few well over that size but generally 50 feet is a point most guys pass on the vane. Cruising style multis tend to give vanes a pass for a variety of reasons most of which are not speed related and the really quick monos also are too fast for vanes. I do really take my hat off to coastal cruisers who use vanes because in the areas I have sailed while coastal cruising the winds are very variable and constantly adjusting the vane is a pain BUT I remember the days when I was so into sailing that adjusting the vane was just part of the fun. I even loved sailing to windward and sailed without a dodger. Motoring was out of the question if I could get any boat speed at all. As I have gotten older I no longer enjoy everything I did when I was younger so take my opinions as those from someone who is getting up there...and again hats off to you folks that are using your vanes for coastal cruising, your to be commended.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 21:18   #73
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Just like I wouldn't go to sea with just one autopilot, I also wouldn't go with only a windvane. I've seen too many people looking for a welder to repair their vane to count them as 100% either.

Matt
Well, I've yet to ever face a repair with my vane that I couldn't effect myself underway, or required anything remotely close to a welder... But, on a few occasions, I've had to sit a spell somewhere waiting for a FedEx package from Raymarine to arrive... :-)

But I agree, a vane is certainly not a substitute or replacement for an autopilot, in the way that an AP can take the place of a vane... I consider it to be more of a 'supplement' to an autopilot, and if I had to choose between going only with one or the other, it would be an AP, hands down...
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 21:38   #74
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,678
Re: Tossing the wind vane

It really depends where one is coastal cruising. In much of the world the coastal winds can be very steady. For a typical coast-hopping day of 30-50 miles it is well worth setting up the wind vane in many places.

A lot of the equation is the time it takes to rig/unrig the vane between harbor and sea. The kind like Fleming and WindPilot make it very easy and fast to do; my vane with a trim tab is at the other extreme...

Earlier there were comments about the difficulty of adjusting a vane. As with getting the sails set, it is easy to get working but to make it really sing one needs to understand a fair amount. The first few times out will likely require a fair amount of fiddling to adjust for the boat, then later it isn't much effort.

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2015, 18:21   #75
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
Re: Tossing the wind vane

I am installing a CPT autopilot to assist deliver my project boat and maybe be back up pilot to a more powerful hydraulic unit at later stage.

A first class windvane for this heavy 60' is 7k while the CPT is 2k. Funds being limited there was really no argument.
Nice to have the vane so mb if the funds stretch I will install a good vane as part of the fit out.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
wind

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fleming wind vane model 45 wind blade adjuster frozen chouliha Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 08-02-2015 05:22
Aries Wind Vane kingfish Seamanship & Boat Handling 7 30-11-2012 20:41
Aries Lift Up Wind Vane Broken Toothed Vane Carriage Coachbolt61 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 06-11-2012 01:32
Pendulum Wind Vane vs Auxiliary Rudder Vane SimonV Seamanship & Boat Handling 8 03-02-2011 18:14
wind vane self steering Pa La O La Multihull Sailboats 5 23-12-2004 07:10



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.