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Old 15-05-2015, 21:24   #16
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Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by JstaRebel View Post
I have hydraulic steering as well. I Have a Navman 3380 and I love it. I even named him Fred. If you switched your vane for davits, your options are limited. I found the 3380 to be the best bang for my buck. I've had Fred aboard for 6 years now.

I own a O/I 415 sloop. My friend is planning to pull the wind vane from his Valiant.

I have neither a vane nor davits at the moment.

Is your 3308 integrated into a wind vane of some type?

Thanks.


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Old 15-05-2015, 21:26   #17
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Valiant 40- kinda like your boat. I have davits and a windvane. Use the davits when Island hopping, Vane when offshore.
Each to his own.
Please post a photo.
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Old 16-05-2015, 08:10   #18
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I can't remember hearing complaints from people who have tillers on their boats. I did hear some now and then from those with wheels.

Not sure why so many small boats have wheels. Tiller give so much more feedback and so much more cockpit space.

Maybe some winvane lovers can convert their boats to tiller. I have seen tiller ports on some wheel steered boats.

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Old 16-05-2015, 09:35   #19
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

OK Steady, I will see what I can find. The first picture is after 3 day passage in the Pacific. I have my RIB on the front deck securely tied down and my wind vane just pulled up so it doesn't get in the way of the harbor maneuvering. The second picture is of my RIB in "Island mode". It stays secure in the back ready to be lowered when we are in waters that require a lot of anchoring and taking the dingy to shore. The wind vane is not in the second picture- I had not yet bought it- but you can see how just taking the wood vane off allows the dingy to be stored there.
Disadvantage- even though my dingy is pretty far out, I still have to use a boat hook to pull it away while lowering and raising it. A disadvantage, but not impossible or even hard with two people. With one person it can be a challenge.
My "strings" are that new super strong wire rope. So far they are not in the way, and manage the wheel when I want them to.
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Old 16-05-2015, 09:48   #20
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Turning the wheel left from 0 to 10 with 1/2 turn of wheel. Turn the the wheel right 3/4 turn back to 0.

Pump puts out same volume but piston/cylinder takes more volume on side without shaft to move same distance.


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I have never seen an un-balanced cylinder on a boat unless there are dual cylinders (still balanced system).

Most boat steering cylinders have the shaft coming out both ends to avoid this problem.

There is still creep due to leakage in the pump and possibly cylinder.

Cheers,
JM.
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Old 16-05-2015, 09:48   #21
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
A few years back I watched a sailing buddy of mine install a new monitor wind vane. After his first season in the Caribbean he has decided to replace it with davits for his dink. The simplicity of the davits is a fair trade for a vane he doesn't use.

Although a simple apparatus, the few vendors that are out there want a pretty penny for they're product.

Although my full keel center cockpit with hydraulic steering limits my options and from many reviews those options do not perform adequately, I occasionally play with the idea of temporarily installing an external rudder just to see for myself.

I would love to add one to my rig but only if will carry its weight.

Are there many that found there vane to be a better ornament than crew member?

Are there any that can brag on their vane that own vessels similar to mine?






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I think some people are just not skilled at balancing a boat -- and an unbalanced sail plan will nullify the windvane. It takes some finesse, I believe (though I have no direct experience).

He'll love those dinghy davits in a following sea, though.
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Old 16-05-2015, 09:52   #22
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
A few years back I watched a sailing buddy of mine install a new monitor wind vane. After his first season in the Caribbean he has decided to replace it with davits for his dink. The simplicity of the davits is a fair trade for a vane he doesn't use.

Although a simple apparatus, the few vendors that are out there want a pretty penny for they're product.

Although my full keel center cockpit with hydraulic steering limits my options and from many reviews those options do not perform adequately, I occasionally play with the idea of temporarily installing an external rudder just to see for myself.

I would love to add one to my rig but only if will carry its weight.

Are there many that found there vane to be a better ornament than crew member?

Are there any that can brag on their vane that own vessels similar to mine?






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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
Yep , a nice ornament, which cuts /bangs up your dingy and is in the way. had vanes on 4 boats. Personally to me they are a PITA. And only useful in steady wind from the right angle. Your boat can be balanced one minute and not when things change. If you like to trim constantly then you will love a vane. But sure, in a steady trade wind and long passage I could see it as useful.
Davits on the other hand are one of the most useful things I ever had.
The only time I would consider a vane at all is if crossing the Pacific or other long passage.
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Old 16-05-2015, 09:54   #23
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I have a full keel center cockpit boat with hydraulic steering. Like you, before davits, I had an RVG wind vane. As a singlehander it was no fun running aft and setting the vane. After selling the RVG, I bought a Cape Horn windvane and figured out a way to install it with hydraulic steering if I connected straight to my rudder stock. However, once cruising I never found time to finish the installation. Ultimately, I sold the unit and replaced it with a reliable autopilot. I have always had enough electricity to run it, and it was never noisy. Now I carry a used spare autopilot.

However, I like having alternate backup systems, and wouldn't complain if I found an inexpensive Hydrovane, especially so considering S/V Beth's idea of setting up the vane for passage making. But then again, it would reduce my ability to quickly launch my RIB dink in an emergency. It seems like everything is a tradeoff.

One other thing, an older autopilot went out while crossing the Pacific, and that experience forced me to learn to be better at sail trim.
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Old 16-05-2015, 10:05   #24
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I have one that Ijust took off if your interested i could give you a good price on it. It is an older unit with a stainess frame covered with white canvas sail. It sailed my 35 pearson all over the northern hemisphere. We are only going local now and the wheel steering is adequate so we took the vane off. Let me know if your interested.
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Old 16-05-2015, 10:21   #25
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

Would not be without my vane. We use it anytime we're out for more than a couple of hours unless wind conditions preclude it (too little wind or too variable). I don't know the issues around connecting to a hydronic system, but my Aries is one of the best tools on our boat. Can't imagine cruising without a windvane of some sort.


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Old 16-05-2015, 10:27   #26
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Although my full keel center cockpit with hydraulic steering limits my options and from many reviews those options do not perform adequately, I occasionally play with the idea of temporarily installing an external rudder just to see for myself.

I would love to add one to my rig but only if will carry its weight.

Are there many that found there vane to be a better ornament than crew member?

Are there any that can brag on their vane that own vessels similar to mine?

Yes, pretty much, although it's just sensible, and not a brag. Only masochists steer by hand on passage, and APs break. I have a pilothouse cutter in steel with two-helm hydraulic steering. I installed a windvane years back and then promptly went into a multi-year refit on the hard...but it works, and it's going back this year. I simply rig the lines to a tiller atop the rudder post and bypass the hydraulics. I wouldn't go offshore without one, having been offshore with one on a long delivery.

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Old 16-05-2015, 10:31   #27
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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With hydraulic steering you are pretty much confined to an auxillary rudder self steering system like WindPilot Pacific Plus, Hydrovane or others of that type. Have the WPP plus on my boat. If the sails are up, the vane is steering. Did a TransPac in light conditions for that route. Most of the sail was DDW with around 8k relative wind. Vane handled the boat without a problem.

You can use a pendulum servo type vane with hydraulic steering if you can hook the vane to a stub tiller on the rudder stock and have a bypass valve on the hydraulic steering. The slippage in hydraulic steering makes for constant tinkering with heading if a PS vane is hooked to the wheel.

Have done more than 10,000 miles of ocean voyaging, about 99% steered by a vane and the rest by my wife.
Agree with all this: the bypass capability is critical not only for vane use, but, if you need to service the hydraulics, for tiller steering by hand. Which I would not recommend in the case of my boat, but my tiller is seven feet long; it's certainly doable if a little on the Viking side.

Hydraulics + tiller + windvane + reliable autopilot (not slaved to the GPS) is the belt and suspenders approach. I guarantee something will break with enough regularity to make you happy you have a Plan B that doesn't involve hand-steering for days.
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Old 16-05-2015, 13:34   #28
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

I have a center cockpit with Hydraulic steering and davits. I have used a standard Aries for thousands of miles by hooking it to the emergency steering tiller, skiff on deck.

In port, the vane comes off and the skiff moves aft.

Now I use an auxiliary rudder type made by Autohelm same company that makes the Monitor. No relation to the electric pilot.

This set up frees the rudder for trimming out lee helm, keeps the davits free to use inter island and allows me the safety of a backup rudder.

This, with a below-decks Raymarine pilot set for a wide course deviance, allows the electric pilot to kick in, in the event the auxiliary rudder vane veers off course more than twenty degrees.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:20   #29
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

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Yep , a nice ornament, which cuts /bangs up your dingy and is in the way. had vanes on 4 boats. Personally to me they are a PITA. And only useful in steady wind from the right angle. Your boat can be balanced one minute and not when things change. If you like to trim constantly then you will love a vane. But sure, in a steady trade wind and long passage I could see it as useful.
Davits on the other hand are one of the most useful things I ever had.
The only time I would consider a vane at all is if crossing the Pacific or other long passage.
Hi Cheech, I agree that they are in the way, however you can do a lot of things to minimize that:
My monitor hugs my Valiant's butt. It only sticks out another 8 inches or so.
My Davits are large and go a fair distance out. The pulleys are 24 inches out from the butt, and if your dingy is less than 3 feet wide, works great.
But the system is not optional for cruising. Just works for the cruising I do, which is passage make all the way to someplace new, then mess around learning the new area, and then spend another 3-7 days passagemaking back.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:47   #30
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Re: Tossing the wind vane

S/v Beth, Thanks for the photos and description. Helpful to see the davits arch and vane on the stern of a double ender or canoe stern.
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