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Old 17-04-2012, 15:24   #31
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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Wonder if there is a formula for wind speed:boat size. If you have that 41' boat, 25-35 seems reasonable to me depending on the waves.
Come on, really? There are 10 year old kids I'd let out in 30 knots and adults I wouldn't let out in 12.





It really boils down to skill an seamanship. Wind speed and boat size have little no nothing to do with it.
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:24   #32
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

In the not too distant future: From a boat at sea ,"Mayday. mayday, mayday we're sinking", The CG response, "will that be MC or VISA?"

there's just too many idiots doing idiotic things and so far there hasn't been any talk of a "I'm not an idiot test" for us to take and pass..
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:37   #33
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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there's just too many idiots doing idiotic things and so far there hasn't been any talk of a "I'm not an idiot test" for us to take and pass..
I would fully support federal licensing requirements for pleasure craft operators.
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:43   #34
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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I would fully support federal licensing requirements for pleasure craft operators.
OK..then there will be at LEAST a $500-$1500 Federal "use" tax on all boaters ...ready for and support that??? ... have to have an offsetting funding supply for all new requirements...
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:48   #35
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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I would fully support federal licensing requirements for pleasure craft operators.
Really!!!!!! I hope that you are kidding.... We don't need more goverment..
I've never seen a test that could possibly contend with mother nature..
Think about what you are saying before posting..Michael..
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:49   #36
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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OK..then there will be at LEAST a $500-$1500 Federal "use" tax on all boaters ...ready for and support that??? ... have to have an offsetting funding supply for all new requirements...
I think that the savings in S&R would offset that. The US is one of the only countries without licensing for recreational boaters. I detect some 'tea bagger' sentiment there but regulation isn't always a bad thing.

Is it a good idea to allow people to operate an 18 wheeler without a CDL? It boils down to the same thing.

Without the requirement to learn some basic rules, people won't (and don't). This often leads to unnecessary and costly expenditure at the taxpayers expense (i.e. S&R, etc., etc.).

You can pay now or later... one comes with the added cost in frustration for those of us who know what we're doing and dollars for pulling the idiots from the fire.

and Michael, I am thinking before I post (and have some contextual experience on which to base my opinion). I've sailed in countries where there are actual licensing requirements and I've never been nearly run down by some half boozed moron in some giant Bayliner throwing a 4 foot wake through the anchorage there either...

Do you think we should eliminate drivers licenses?
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Old 17-04-2012, 16:51   #37
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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I would fully support federal licensing requirements for pleasure craft operators.
woulds pretty well for car drivers
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Old 17-04-2012, 17:03   #38
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

BTW - Many States in the US are now mandating operators licenses with a testing requirement. There's your States Rights for you.. only problem is that most waterways cross a number of state boundaries and there seems to be a lot of variability in the test and training materials between various states. National standards here would be a big help as all the regulations in coastal areas under the jurisdiction of the USCG fall under federal regulation and eliminate the need to each state to maintain a separate bureaucracy for maintaining this.

In fact, prior to the militarization of the USCG this would have been an ideal job for them under the US Dept. of Commerce.

The other reason in favor of common federal requirement is that many pleasure craft share the water with vessels engaged in interstate or international commerce and must abide by rules which clearly establish responsibilities and rights of vessels in relation to one another. Many recreational boaters are completely oblivious to these rules and regulations. A quick read through half of the threads here will tell you that.
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Old 17-04-2012, 18:13   #39
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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Originally Posted by JoeFish View Post
BTW - Many States in the US are now mandating operators licenses with a testing requirement. There's your States Rights for you.. only problem is that most waterways cross a number of state boundaries and there seems to be a lot of variability in the test and training materials between various states. National standards here would be a big help as all the regulations in coastal areas under the jurisdiction of the USCG fall under federal regulation and eliminate the need to each state to maintain a separate bureaucracy for maintaining this.

In fact, prior to the militarization of the USCG this would have been an ideal job for them under the US Dept. of Commerce.

The other reason in favor of common federal requirement is that many pleasure craft share the water with vessels engaged in interstate or international commerce and must abide by rules which clearly establish responsibilities and rights of vessels in relation to one another. Many recreational boaters are completely oblivious to these rules and regulations. A quick read through half of the threads here will tell you that.
Clueless...USCG has always been "militarized"...was under treasury then transportation in the last 100 years.

States are handlig it just fine .... having taught captains licensing for 5 years and NJ state licensing for 11 years...it had little effect on SAR. Stupid, arrogant people are still the same after training.

Rules of the road are the same for all states and most states are teaching NASBLA approved courses (standardized).

Testing and training without hands on evaluation is a joke....that's why if you want it to happen...stand by for at least a $500 if not $1500 fee embedded somewhere's in our boating pleasure...then we have to dealwith recurrent evaluation as laws change...even the highway folks seem to think that's inevitable.
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Old 17-04-2012, 18:25   #40
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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Clueless...USCG has always been "militarized"...was under treasury then transportation in the last 100 years.

States are handlig it just fine .... having taught captains licensing for 5 years and NJ state licensing for 11 years...it had little effect on SAR. Stupid, arrogant people are still the same after training.

Rules of the road are the same for all states and most states are teaching NASBLA approved courses (standardized).

Testing and training without hands on evaluation is a joke....that's why if you want it to happen...stand by for at least a $500 if not $1500 fee embedded somewhere's in our boating pleasure...then we have to dealwith recurrent evaluation as laws change...even the highway folks seem to think that's inevitable.
Thank you, I agree, after 50 yrs. going up in Comm. Fisheres Ind. I have never needed to call CG other than asking for a bar report. Common sense is all that's needed, other than actual experence. Any time I'm in an area that I've never sailed I talk to the local comm. fishermen. They will give you a clue about there area. Just common sense.. Michael..
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Old 17-04-2012, 18:38   #41
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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Thank you, I agree, after 50 yrs. going up in Comm. Fisheres Ind. I have never needed to call CG other than asking for a bar report. Common sense is all that's needed, other than actual experence. Any time I'm in an area that I've never sailed I talk to the local comm. fishermen. They will give you a clue about there area. Just common sense.. Michael..
The Coast Guard spent 10.3 percent of its $6.1 billion operating budget on search-and-rescues last year. You think you're not paying for your boating with your tax dollars?

Clueless is when you refuse to account for the real cost of things. USCG S&R does not pay for itself with pixie dust and leprechaun fuzz.

In District 7, which stretches from the coast of Crystal River south to the Fort Myers beaches, the Coast Guard carried out 1,300 search-and-rescue missions in 2008.

One search in February/March of 2009 cost $1.6 million. The three-day search covered more than 20,000 square miles and required 230 combined hours of Coast Guard aircraft, cutters and a motor life boat.

All that money went toward fuel, maintenance and other operating costs of the two high-powered C-130 Hercules fixed-wing aircraft, two Jayhawk helicopters, a 179-foot cutter, and other expensive vessels that combed the gulf.

Hoping people will use common sense is what brought us the real estate bubble and eventual housing crisis as well as the catastrophe we presently have on Wall Street.

If the States were doing such a bang up job we wouldn't be spending $620,800,000.00 a year on USCG search and rescue operations.

Now if I was a taxpayer who wasn't a boater I would be pretty pissed off at paying for your boating hobby. I'm a big advocate of pay to play. I don't expect others to pay for my hobby.

Putting in place regulations and licensing requirements that insure minimum level of education for a pass time which may require your eventual rescue at taxpayer expense is hardly unreasonable given the cost to taxpayers.

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Clueless...
The USCG did not exist until 1915. President Woodrow Wilson signed into law the "Act to Create the Coast Guard," an act passed by Congress on 20 January, 1915 that combined the Life Saving Service and Revenue Cutter Service to form the US Coast Guard.

With the exception of times of war the USCG has been under the Treasury Department (my bad, I did not mean Commerce) until 1967. It wasn't until Executive Order 167 81 transferred the Coast Guard from the Treasury Department to the newly formed Department of Transportation.

The militarization of the CG and shift from largely commerce supporting activities (save for drug interdiction) happened when the Coast Guard was formally transferred from the Department of Transportation to the newly created Department of Homeland Security March 1, 2003.

I'm familiar with the history, I have had a number of family members in the CG, one of which resigned months after the transfer to DHS after 22 years of service.
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Old 17-04-2012, 18:43   #42
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

My first mate could never understand why I would go out in less than favorable weather conditions from time to time. I would then give him tasks to perform. ie cooking a meal, work on the fore deck etc. I finally explained to him as it was explained to me. We can go in from here when we choose we cannot go in when we are caught in open ocean situations. Better to practice our skills now and perfect them in relative safety, than try and learn them by necessity. IMHO
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Old 17-04-2012, 19:07   #43
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

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Originally Posted by JoeFish View Post
The Coast Guard spent 10.3 percent of its $6.1 billion operating budget on search-and-rescues last year. You think you're not paying for your boating with your tax dollars?

Clueless is when you refuse to account for the real cost of things. USCG S&R does not pay for itself with pixie dust and leprechaun fuzz.

In District 7, which stretches from the coast of Crystal River south to the Fort Myers beaches, the Coast Guard carried out 1,300 search-and-rescue missions in 2008.

One search in February/March of 2009 cost $1.6 million. The three-day search covered more than 20,000 square miles and required 230 combined hours of Coast Guard aircraft, cutters and a motor life boat.

All that money went toward fuel, maintenance and other operating costs of the two high-powered C-130 Hercules fixed-wing aircraft, two Jayhawk helicopters, a 179-foot cutter, and other expensive vessels that combed the gulf.

Hoping people will use common sense is what brought us the real estate bubble and eventual housing crisis as well as the catastrophe we presently have on Wall Street.

If the States were doing such a bang up job we wouldn't be spending $620,800,000.00 a year on USCG search and rescue operations.

Now if I was a taxpayer who wasn't a boater I would be pretty pissed off at paying for your boating hobby. I'm a big advocate of pay to play. I don't expect others to pay for my hobby.

Putting in place regulations and licensing requirements that insure minimum level of education for a pass time which may require your eventual rescue at taxpayer expense is hardly unreasonable given the cost to taxpayers.



The USCG did not exist until 1915. President Woodrow Wilson signed into law the "Act to Create the Coast Guard," an act passed by Congress on 20 January, 1915 that combined the Life Saving Service and Revenue Cutter Service to form the US Coast Guard.

With the exception of times of war the USCG has been under the Treasury Department (my bad, I did not mean Commerce) until 1967. It wasn't until Executive Order 167 81 transferred the Coast Guard from the Treasury Department to the newly formed Department of Transportation.

The militarization of the CG and shift from largely commerce supporting activities (save for drug interdiction) happened when the Coast Guard was formally transferred from the Department of Transportation to the newly created Department of Homeland Security March 1, 2003.

I'm familiar with the history, I have had a number of family members in the CG, one of which resigned months after the transfer to DHS after 22 years of service.
Then perhaps it is time to audit the spending of that huge budget. Much like the rest of the military budget it is one big rip off. The contractors ripping off the defence contracts make West Marine look like a dollar store.
If the main bone of contention when rescuing a struggling mariner is money, then the first place to start the investigation is on the spending of that money for supplies rather than how to stiff the boatman. There is no excuse for a sailor to put himself, through stupidity in harms way and need rescue. There is less excuse for a large organisation to wantonly waste taxpayers money on overpriced contracts.
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Old 17-04-2012, 19:07   #44
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Re: Too Many Coast Guard Rescues?

I've heard luck shines on fools and idiots. I personally, don't include luck in my tactical decisions. Heavy weather is something that should be expected, and trained for. I'm a fresh water sailor on a large lake in Florida for the time being. I view my lake as a relatively safe play-pen. In worst case, my vessel sinks leaving me to swim 3 miles to shore. I've been out lots of times when a serious thunderstorm bore down on me, and saw it as a great opportunity to practice storm tactics. The lake is 20' deep and the rocky shore lines are actually grass. I've made lots of mistakes on a lee shore, and I learned from those mistakes. My firstmate and I practice MOB drills weekly, and can reduce sail in very short order. We take this business seriously, our lives may depend on it. We will hit the salt soon, and will take that even more seriously. I think that some sailors/ sailboat operators forget that the sea is as inhospitable as outer space. They venture out with a fools eye and a "never happen to me" attitude. **** can and does hit the fan, and luck runs out for most.
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Old 17-04-2012, 19:16   #45
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