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Old 05-01-2015, 11:23   #16
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post
Before you become convinced that you should never jibe, I would float the opinion that while jibing CAN be dangerous, it is not necessarily dangerous, even in high wind. In appropriate conditions with proper execution by a good crew, you would almost always jibe when changing tack while sailing off the wind. However, if you are unsure about how to jibe safely and/or about the skill level of your crew, it is safer to tack all the way around, even when sailing downwind (i.e., come up, tack, and fall off again).

In general, the procedure for jibing is

1. helm issues the order "prepare to jibe"

2. while slowly heading towards a full run, the crew will gradually sheet in the main to bring the boom towards the center line

3. if the winch has a tailer or any locking mechanism, be sure the mainsheet is ready to be freed quickly. Once you actually come through the wind (astern), you want to be ready to quickly ease the main all the way out

4. crew issues the response "ready"

5. helm issues the order "jibing" and turns to bring the wind across the stern

6. again, if you don't ease the main immediately after the wind crosses the stern, the boat will try to turn up into the wind, sometimes violently.

The mistake inexperienced people often make is jibing without controlling the boom (by centering it). Consequently, they have to sail by the lee in order to backwind the sail, and once that happens it swings violently across and, yes, it can be very dangerous to people and rigging.

Don't be afraid to jibe, just do it at the right time. Practice in light winds where even a crash jibe won't do much damage. Just keep your head down!

Pete
This is the proper way to go!
I would stress it more. For a well trained crew, jibing downwind is safer than going around in almost full circle. Just think about the difference of the apparent wind speed between the two options. However, as Pete wrote, you need to exercise until you feel safe. Start at low wind speeds and train with gradually stronger winds.
Be careful when you complete the jibe, do it slowly and see that you are still on the run (on the new tack) when you release the main. The biggest mistake people make is that they continue at the to turn fast upwind. Do it slowly by stages.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:57   #17
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Not to get too far off topic, but would this also apply just the same with a wing shaped main (two actually--identical)? I am building a 45 foot cat with two identical masts with identical modified 'junk' rigged sails (modified into an actual wing shape). The sails themselves are divided into four foot 'sections' with a control line to each wing shaped 'batten'. The junk rig divides the forces on each line to that of its own section, so the bottom 'batten' (which would be the boom on a regular sail) doesn't have to take all the force. Would it be any easier to jibe? Are there any junk rig sailors listening?

(technical note: identical sails to reduce the sheets by half (by joining those sheets together that go to corresponding battens; each two battens on each sail actually having a sheet (control line) attached to a ss ring fastened to a line between those battens in the usual way----or do I have no understanding of the junk rig and how it works (the Internet is wonderful and full of information, but it doesn't come close to someone who actually 'messes' about with boats)

"Sailing For Dummies" didn't explain jibing anywhere near as well as what I have just read here. Thanks to all of you for helping me understand! Now I at least know something about the danger and what I have to look out for.
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Old 05-01-2015, 14:10   #18
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

When gybing single-handed, I just furl the jib before I start. It doesn't take long. This then allows me to concentrate on controlling the mainsail, as pete33458 describes.
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Old 05-01-2015, 14:10   #19
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

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Originally Posted by Philip St1 View Post
Not to get too far off topic, but would this also apply just the same with a wing shaped main (two actually--identical)? I am building a 45 foot cat with two identical masts with identical modified 'junk' rigged sails (modified into an actual wing shape). The sails themselves are divided into four foot 'sections' with a control line to each wing shaped 'batten'. The junk rig divides the forces on each line to that of its own section, so the bottom 'batten' (which would be the boom on a regular sail) doesn't have to take all the force. Would it be any easier to jibe? Are there any junk rig sailors listening?

(technical note: identical sails to reduce the sheets by half (by joining those sheets together that go to corresponding battens; each two battens on each sail actually having a sheet (control line) attached to a ss ring fastened to a line between those battens in the usual way----or do I have no understanding of the junk rig and how it works (the Internet is wonderful and full of information, but it doesn't come close to someone who actually 'messes' about with boats)

"Sailing For Dummies" didn't explain jibing anywhere near as well as what I have just read here. Thanks to all of you for helping me understand! Now I at least know something about the danger and what I have to look out for.
I think either way you have to follow basically the same steps to avoid slamming the sail to the other side, but I think the risk of damage (to rigging or heads) would be much less without the weight of the boom. I'm just guessing, I've never sailed such a rig, but I don't see what else could be done. Pete
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Old 05-01-2015, 14:48   #20
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

I've only sailed on a couple of junks, and I'm buying one this month.
Gybing is a much simpler and less violent affair on a junk because a percentage (between 10 and 20) of the sail is forward of the mast, damping the motion.
Reading the 6 steps for gybing (above), here are the 6 steps for gybing a junk:
1. Put the helm over.
2. Make a cup of tea.
3. Check CF for interesting arguments.
4. Eat a biscuit.
5. Look at birds.
6. Write a poem.
Items 2 to 6 may be done in any order, or not at all.
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Old 05-01-2015, 16:03   #21
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Aussies. Have to work tea and bikkies into everything.
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Old 05-01-2015, 16:39   #22
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Not just Aussies. We Brits are quite partial to tea, ideally with chocolate Hobnobs. I've been known to anchor in the lee of Angel Island and brew up.
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Old 05-01-2015, 16:46   #23
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Normanby View Post
I've only sailed on a couple of junks, and I'm buying one this month.
Gybing is a much simpler and less violent affair on a junk because a percentage (between 10 and 20) of the sail is forward of the mast, damping the motion.
Reading the 6 steps for gybing (above), here are the 6 steps for gybing a junk:
1. Put the helm over.
2. Make a cup of tea.
3. Check CF for interesting arguments.
4. Eat a biscuit.
5. Look at birds.
6. Write a poem.
Items 2 to 6 may be done in any order, or not at all.
Shame on you

Where is the beer in your gybe technique? I guess a Tsingtao would be appropriate.
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Old 05-01-2015, 17:56   #24
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

One trick I like is to remember you only need to pay attention to the sail closest to the wind. So, when you tack, it is all about the jib as the main is usually sheeted in close to center. When you jibe, it's all about the main. It doesn't really matter if the jib gets back winded as long as you control the main sail. This can help you prioritize the order of operations, especially when you are sailing short handed.
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Old 05-01-2015, 18:46   #25
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

I've arrogantly ignored this post for a while because I thought it was too "beginner" for me, even though I am really new sailor. To continue the train of thought about jibing, there is another question that hasn't been considered yet. I have been asking friends how to safely jibe in my boat when single-handing. The preventer seems to be a critical piece of equipment, which someone already noted. I was mentioning to a friend that if sea state and wind conditions got to be too great, then I would just chicken jibe, which I sometimes do now (especially if none of my buddies are watching) because it just takes so long with great effort to winch in the main and it can be quicker overall. This person told me that it might be dangerous to chicken jibe in really big seas. Granted, I don't have much offshore mileage, so I'm having a hard time thinking through when this could be the case. Can others with experience comment on this? I hope this is not considered a hijacking!
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Old 05-01-2015, 18:52   #26
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Kierjo, the thing that finally triggered the light bulb firing for me was looking at a diagram that shows the points of sail. Just focus on close hauled and running, and then when you're sailing all you have to do is remember whether the bow is going through the wind or it's the stern. I think about it as the "dead wind" zone during a tack and the "oh sh*t" zone during the jibe, if you're not ready for it.
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Old 05-01-2015, 18:58   #27
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

"Chicken gybing" will subject you to higher apparent windspeeds than normal gybing will. Also at some point you'll be beam-on to the wind and the waves.



As long as you are carrying an appropriate amount of sail, it's shouldn't be a problem.

You'd also have to sheet your headsail in, as well as the main to prevent them from flogging as you come up towards tacking. I'd have thought that would be more work than just gybing.

But normal gybing shouldn't be a problem anyway. You must have a huge mainsail for it to be too much work to sheet it in. It doesn't need to be pulled in tight like close-hauled sailing, just the majority of the slack sheet rope taken in. I can always do it by hand, no winching is ever needed.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:01   #28
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

Oh, another thing (!) that was really helpful to me was to learn that the jib will start to back wind when you are running and getting close to jybing ("sailing by the lee"). Luffing the jib won't be a problem when you're close hauled although it does slow you down, and that's generally not good if you're racing someone...
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:08   #29
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Re: To Tack or Jibe???

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"Chicken gybing" will subject you to higher apparent windspeeds than normal gybing will. Also at some point you'll be beam-on to the wind and the waves.
Awesome - this is what I was looking for.

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But normal gybing shouldn't be a problem either. You must have a huge mainsail for it to be too much work to sheet it in. It doesn't need to be pulled in tight like close-hauled sailing, just the majority of the slack sheet rope taken in. I can always do it by hand, no winching is ever needed.
YEP - it's huge. It takes a long time because I start winching it in while it's still powered up. I don't think I could bring it in quickly enough while it's DDW and just before it powers back up. It would be very bad to have an uncontrolled jybe on my boat.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:15   #30
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Re: To Tack or Jibe?

Tack or Gybe!

Let's use an analogy that all the non-sailors can understand.

Hold a half opened umbrella with the top pointed into a strong wind.
....... this is a tack.

Hold a half opened umbrella with the top pointed with a strong wind.
....... this is a gybe.

Now, imagine that your umbrella has a thirty foot diameter.

Clear?
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