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Old 24-07-2014, 18:54   #76
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
That's okay. Seems like you have mended your ways. I didn't know until now that you could sink them.

I had one of the old nearly original ones, a Kawasaki. I don't think it would actually sink unless you holed it, but you could fill the engine compt with water and hydro lock the engine. Bilge pump was actually a Venturi in the jet pump and would remove an amazing amount of water, as long as it was running of course. Many of us would put an electric pump in too and use a switch to turn it on. A favorite trick was to spin around on it feet hanging off the front and submerge the bow, lifting the stern out of the water, then gun it. It would shoot an amazing amount of water, a long way. Of course the whole thing would submarine and start filling with water, so this was a very short lived trick.
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Old 24-07-2014, 18:54   #77
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I guess I'm low life then, because many years ago as a young land locked Soldier, only boat I had was a Jet-ski, couldn't afford much else to be truthful
Dont worry us military veteran low life's can hang out together.


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That's okay. Seems like you have mended your ways. I didn't know until now that you could sink them.
Well technically mostly sink them. They are stuffed with Styrofoam so they won't go to the bottom but they do resemble icebergs after a while.
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Old 24-07-2014, 19:02   #78
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
...I believe it is time for more oversight....it won't make better boaters...Ok - 2 cents in...
An-n-n-d...I see your tuppence and raise you a nickel...

Huh? If better boaters isn't the result then what's the point?

For those who would regulate boating I ask that you consider:

-some of the same people whose judgement you might question as they boat about your harbors and bays would be those who would make and implement the policies that would be put in place
-your government never met a program that it could kill once established/that could not be used to escalate fees and taxes and fines/that couldn't inexorably implement more and more restrictive rules and regs "in our interest" (you know - because they care about us)
-that our ponderous legal system and vulturous legal profession (yeah-yeah...not all lawyers are bad guys...but the PI lawyers feed at the trough of the closest entity that has made a mistake) will figure out a way get a percentage of the assets of the regulated entities
- and...any time a "system" is put in place to accomplish some noble deed human nature will inevitably insert cronyism and unwarranted privilege into it.

/////

OTOH...raising classroom and on the water requirements for boating licenses would create a lot of employment opportunities for the vast numbers of highly skilled and experienced sailors on CF...and solve that age old question - How do you replenish your cruising kitty when you finally cut the ties to dirt?
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Old 24-07-2014, 19:34   #79
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
<snip>
Thankfully we have the USCG, and not have to depend on some of you to get help when in trouble. I would not help anyone in a monohull, sailboat because that kind of boat is obviously unsafe with a single rudder, single diesel engine, tons of ballast, no watertight bulkheads, clearly unsafe and should not be allowed to go offshore. And single handers? WTF, that is so clearly unsafe that not only illegal, you should be jailed for not less than 3 years if caught, or maybe worse. Children on board? Are you kidding me, 10 years in prison outright. And the firing squad if you don't have a 200 lb anchor and 500 lbs of chain on a 7:1 scope.

Indeed, this is Getting Ridiculous

You forgot airbags... And mandatory helmets... And an approved sunscreen application plan lest someone get a sunburn...

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
An-n-n-d...I see your tuppence and raise you a nickel...

Huh? If better boaters isn't the result then what's the point?
Sorry for my lack of specificity. Licensing per se won't make better boaters. It is part of a system.

In fact I am not sure why I wrote that. I don't believe it. In Singapore the lore is they instituted licensing due to some jetski accidents. Now you must pass a written and practical and show you took an approved course. It works.

And the test isn't a BS 10 question safety test. It's the full deal Colregs and all.

Anyone think the boat manufacturing lobby is not hard at work avoiding licensing?
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Old 24-07-2014, 19:49   #80
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

Perhaps I overlooked it, but I didn't happen to see a link to their blog posted so in case anyone is interested here is the link Waterway Guide had in its article: http://sailingseaheather.com.

I agree with various posters that there is little marginal cost to rescues since USCG would likely otherwise be training, but a non-emergency response does pull assets out of availability for real emergencies. I don't think there's any easy bright-line to draw. Bad things can and do happen even to smart, experienced folks in well-equipped vessels and often we are not as smart nor as experienced in real life as we may believe. I don't think we should make people feel afraid to call when they really should, but too many people see rescue as a safety blanket and replacement for a balance of preparation, resilience, and willingness to accept inherent risk. What most concerns me when I see these situations, i.e., where the circumstances simply do not equate to a mayday call, is the backlash it has the potential to bring down upon us all when taxpayers clamor for reimbursement requirements for rescues. I don't want to see government seeking reimbursement for rescues, but if Peter keeps crying "Wolf!" unnecessarily, we may all pay the price.




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Old 24-07-2014, 19:57   #81
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

Here's a prediction. In the next week or two well be reading about a Gemini cat, traveling to Galveston from the Chesapeake.

Hopefully I'm wrong on this one. But I gotta feeling.

If someone sees it, please post it.

Enough said.
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Old 24-07-2014, 20:19   #82
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I guess I'm low life then, because many years ago as a young land locked Soldier, only boat I had was a Jet-ski, couldn't afford much else to be truthful
It's too bad you started on the dark side. I just hope with a few more years you can live it down.
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Old 24-07-2014, 20:21   #83
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

If they managed to get a tow on the boat the weather could not have been THAT bad.

I think they were heading back to the chesapeake from the keys. I'm wondering why they were 130 miles of off the coast. Maybe it's me but we were taught by two very seasoned east coast sailors to stay within. 2 hours off the shore, so 6 to 12 mm off shore, in case it went to hell or they just got tired.


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Old 25-07-2014, 05:20   #84
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
...I think they were heading back to the chesapeake from the keys. I'm wondering why they were 130 miles of off the coast. Maybe it's me but we were taught by two very seasoned east coast sailors to stay within. 2 hours off the shore, so 6 to 12 mm off shore, in case it went to hell or they just got tired...
In the late spring and summer it's common practice to ride the Gulf Stream from Florida up to the Cape Hatteras area, then decide whether to go around the Cape outside or head in to Beaufort and take the ICW. Staying inshore does put you closer to the inlets, but also exposes you to countercurrents, and you miss the 3-4 knot boost of the Stream.

It looks like they were close to but outside of the southern edge, so I'm not sure what they were up to. My preference is to stick closer to the northern edge. Any bad weather tends to intensify as it passes over the Stream, so if you're on the southern edge you can get smacked harder than if you're on the northern side.
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Old 25-07-2014, 05:42   #85
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I had one of the old nearly original ones, a Kawasaki. I don't think it would actually sink unless you holed it, but you could fill the engine compt with water and hydro lock the engine.
I used to keep a spark plug socket in my old wetbike(1983 I think) just to get the water out of the engine. Turn it over to blow out the water and it would fire right up. Back then I knew nothing about two strokes and I now feel sorry for that poor engine and its bearings.

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Old 25-07-2014, 06:04   #86
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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I used to keep a spark plug socket in my old wetbike(1983 I think) just to get the water out of the engine. Turn it over to blow out the water and it would fire right up. Back then I knew nothing about two strokes and I now feel sorry for that poor engine and its bearings.

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Those of us that modified our JetSkis and rode them hard would drag them ashore and turn them upside down after removing the plugs and blow them out that way, amazing tough little engines.

The old wetbikes and Jet skis never became nearly the pests they way PWC's are now because they were too hard to ride, unless you were extraordinarily talented you couldn't just rent one for an hour having never ridden one and have any hope of riding it, so stupid drunks had no chance either.
Eliminate the rentals and stupid drunks, and you eliminate 95% of the idiots out riding these things.

Right after flight school was over my wife and I were at Panama City with our Jet ski, ran into a DES SIP. For those that don't know, there were flight standards for the school house, and you didn't want a "ride" with one of them, they had standards to maintain after all. One busted checkride pretty much put you at the bottom of the totem pole, and aircraft assignment came from class ranking, usually the top 10% of the class got to pick their aircraft.
Anyway this guy wanted to ride my ski, and as a young W1, I couldn't say no. Of course he couldn't ride it in the surf, all he could do was drag around behind the thing, anyway he rode off but came back soon and kept going back and forth in front of us waving, we waved back but he kept riding back and forth.
His wife went down to the water to see what he wanted. The ski had blown his swim trunks off, and at any speed above idle he said his white Butt would show and people would point and start to laugh, so he had to idle back. She had to take him a towel and their trip to the beach was over of course.
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Old 25-07-2014, 06:23   #87
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

To get back on topic, there is cost associated in BS rescues, if nothing else of course they can't cover a real rescue while out on a BS one, they are burning fuel etc. and that comes out of their training dollars and they may accept a higher risk in something as they believe it's a real rescue, and one of them could get hurt or killed. So BS rescues should be avoided whenever possible.
A few years ago apparently it became pretty common in Atlanta Ga. to take the orange and white taxi into downtown Atlanta, you didn't have cab fare, just call 911 and say you were short of breath or had chest pains or something, an ambulance would come then once you arrived at Grady memorial say your fine and refuse treatment and walk out. I don't know if that still happens or not, as I don't have a friend that works in their ER anymore.

But if you abuse any Emergency system, you should pay, if you have no money then you pick up trash on the side of the road.
Problem is of course, who gets to decide if your rescue or ambulance ride is "worthy" or not.

Thing that has always bothered me is let a celebrity or politician go missing, see how much money and resources will be spent looking for them as opposed to Joe sixpack being missing.
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Old 25-07-2014, 07:45   #88
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

Speaking of the stupidity of jetski riders. Last week we had an idiot that broke down and couldn't find a tow in so he leaves an empty jetski floating and goes for tools on someone else's jetski(?!). In the interim a towboat passes said jetski and calls his buddy to tow it in and calls the USCG. At this point a helo starts a search grid looking for the missing rider. Missing rider found shortly thereafter when he returns to the area.

My only condolence was he will have to pay for the tow but I wish he'd be on the hook for more. I think people should pay for stupidity but that goes against their overall goals of wanting people to call for help.

Last year I just missed being run over while in a RIB in a no wake zone by two skis racing full throttle up the channel. They yelled at me for being in their way!

In my experience most jetski riders are under 25 and most are idiots. I do know a few adults that have them and ride responsibly but the majority fit the stereotype. I hate dealing with them.

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Old 25-07-2014, 08:58   #89
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

I had girl just stop about 30 ft in front of me the other day and just look at me. I thought Damn I've never run over a jetski before I wonder what it is going to feel and sound like, but she moved when I was about 10 ft from running her over.
I am absolutely sure she had no idea that just stopping in front of a boat under sail wasn't a perfectly normal thing to do.


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Old 25-07-2014, 10:39   #90
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

The points about insurance made earlier are well taken. I am certain that A64pilot would agree that we don't want an FAA of the sea. That is why I reference social pressure as an applicable regulator. Judgement is learned in arcane ways. Sometimes thru remembering getting away with things that insulted intelligence and mother nature, not as "that was really cool, I just gotta be the best!" But as "WTF!, if I don't cut that out the laws of physics will see to it that I dont get to play anymore." Disregarded threats, or unperceived threats to yourself or your vessel cause bad outcomes. Under crewed boats, or crew who are really passengers seems to be a common issue. So does lack of the 6 P's. Becoming fixated, get homeitis, ect ect. Generalization seems to be common as well i.e. (using myself as an example) "I have sailed Puget Sound all my life, it should be no problem to head out to Honolulu." Way to many unaccounted for variables in that statement. Particularly since I am usually single handed. So if I post up here that I'm gonna do that, I expect a monumental outpouring of approbrium, and jokes at my expense. I will however consider the source.
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