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Old 23-07-2014, 18:20   #46
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I think entitlement society is apt but also a privileged, wealthy and instantly-self-gratifying society.

I don't think boat ads per se lead people to ocean voyages. Most that I see show plasti-boats in Marinas or harbors.

But I do think the push-button society with gps, phones and all that lead people to believe that risk is negligible and this is "easy." - I think blogs help reinforce this idea.

"We've worked hard, can afford a yacht and now we are comfortable cruising!"

Wow that must be easy! I have no skin in someone else's game. People are gonna do dumb stuff, forever! The cost of rescue, coast guard, blah, blah, blah doesn't worry me. It's part of a massive modern society.

Here is the controversial part - I believe it is time for more oversight. US sailors should be required to pass a basic skills and driving test - yes it won't make better boaters but it is part of the solution. I should be able to know that everyone in harbor has at least been trained to a basic standard.

I don't think it is feasible to regulate Blue Water cruising but if there was an advanced license along the lines of the AYA classes I sure would be compelled to cert and insurance companies would love it. And those that can't currently get insurance may be able to do so if there is a demonstrated competency.

Before the "freedom" folks get to excited, licensing is not restriction - it is (should be a badge of training and competency)

Ok - 2 cents in...
Im torn on a response to this. In one aspect I totally agree with you. If there is a minimum training regiment then theoretically things would be safer. I.e. getting a pilots license. You know that mostly all pilots are operating with a minimum amount of training that you can rely on.

Just to play devils advocate though (sorry its in my nature)
How many stupid incompetent drivers have you almost been hit by on the road? And everyone is supposed to have passed drivers ed. Also New Hampshire does have a boating license requirement for inland lakes which started over 10 years ago. I have never looked up the stats and I am sure things have improved but on a busy weekend on lake winnipesaukee I can't count how many morons I come across that dont follow basic laws or navigation skills. Even to the point that when I sank my jet ski no-one seemed to know what 5 short blasts on my air horn meant as I frantically waived my arms looking for help. They just kept passing by and one person even waived back.

I think like communism, in theory it would work but, it would need to be regimented the same way aircraft pilots are with the same amount of training to be effective.

Overall I do agree with you unfortunately I just can't see it actually being feasible
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:34   #47
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

@OTR83 - I agree with you. The state car driving tests are remarkably easy to pass, driving is close to an entitlement.

It's hard to argue that boating would be any different. But the price of poker would be higher. Without proper enforcement there is no "seriousness." to the action.

Frankly in many ways we have abdicated responsibility to the courts in many ways. We enforce through liability. Drive a car, you need insurance, need insurance you need a license. When I was a kid we registered our cars without insurance cover and there were a lot of uninsured motorists. Now you can't register the vehicle without proof of cover. Hard to argue that's not a change for good.

A boating license would likely end up with the the kind of thing.
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Old 23-07-2014, 18:59   #48
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

They have a compulsory boat licence system in most aussie states. Seems to not cause to many problems overall. Down here in tassie its about a half day on water course and short multichoice exam. It's much harder to get a Vhf licence! Overall I am not overly impressed with the level of competence, but its far better than nothing.

From my time as an RYA instructor the RYA yachtmaster courses seem to be excellent and challenging. Shame insurance companies dont seem interested in reducing premiums much for qualified persons.

Education I can go with but the NZ's draconian cat 1 regs for any Nz vessel going offshore are very restrictive, and I'd hate to see aussie go down the same route.
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Old 23-07-2014, 19:02   #49
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Even to the point that when I sank my jet ski no-one seemed to know what 5 short blasts on my air horn meant as I frantically waived my arms looking for help. They just kept passing by and one person even waived back.
"I am unsure of your intentions" ? Why would you make that signal when in need of assistance?

It certainly doesn't mean "Help!"

And "frantically waving" isn't the same as "slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side".

Maybe you should have made proper distress signals.
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Old 23-07-2014, 19:13   #50
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

Armchair QBing at its best. Unless you were there, you are not entitled to pass judgement... And the CG made the call that this couple were worth the bother. I am not going to second guess them either.
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Old 23-07-2014, 19:59   #51
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

(See avatar):

J's grandkids say:

"Have Dolphin, Will Travel*, You FUBAR It, We Sortie"
(*Snack and nap breaks required...)


Eurocopter HH-65 Dolphin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 23-07-2014, 20:08   #52
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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I'd be interested in what you reckon the % of sailors don't know how to heave to.

Given the recurring questions on this and many other sailing forums about "How do i heave to?", I have the feeling it's way higher than we might think for something that should be almost as basic as raising sail.
Heave To"??? does that mean I heave my breakfast? or does it mean I heave all the money on the boat to pirates?????
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Old 23-07-2014, 20:09   #53
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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"I am unsure of your intentions" ? Why would you make that signal when in need of assistance?

It certainly doesn't mean "Help!"

And "frantically waving" isn't the same as "slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side".

Maybe you should have made proper distress signals.
Sorry maybe I mistyped, maybe my memory is foggy, maybe I was slightly panicking. I dont know about you but even on a lake and not the ocean with boats all around and your craft is falling out from underneath you as you get swamped by 3 foot waves from passing boats that are partying for 4th of july weekend and crowded enough to have a good chance of hitting you in a narrow channel I was scared. Maybe I wasn't as composed as you would have been. My bad. However if I were to pass someone frantically blasting their air horn and as you alluded "partially performing the proper distress signal" in a channel with a mostly sunken craft I would investigate further and see if they need help.

So excuse me for not being perfect but I highly freaking doubt that people were thinking hmmmm...... thats not the proper way to wave your arms for distress so he must be fine. Im guessing they just didnt have a clue.

Tell you what though if you ever need help and dont call a proper mayday or arent 100% proper in your procedure I'll be sure to criticize you over why you shouldnt have been helped.

Now in person this is where I would challenge your man hood and call you choice words for being a ____ but for keeping to forum rules i'll just let let you imagine how I would do it improperly and not up to uscg standards during a time of stress.
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Old 23-07-2014, 20:47   #54
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Even to the point that when I sank my jet ski no-one seemed to know what 5 short blasts on my air horn meant as I frantically waived my arms looking for help
Maybe they were thinking, "oh good, got another one".
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Old 23-07-2014, 20:50   #55
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Maybe they were thinking, "oh good, got another one".
You know that I could believe
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Old 23-07-2014, 21:09   #56
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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Maybe they were thinking, "oh good, got another one".
Love it!
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Old 24-07-2014, 04:06   #57
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

At least their boat held together, unlike certain others obviously not meant for blue water

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Old 24-07-2014, 05:33   #58
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

But did the skipper and crew hold together?
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Old 24-07-2014, 06:02   #59
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

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But did the skipper and crew hold together?
Yes, very well. see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-new-post.html
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Old 24-07-2014, 08:07   #60
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Re: This is Getting Ridiculous

Different boat, Mark...
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