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Old 03-04-2015, 21:55   #106
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
skip-
I'd rather collide with a thousand bags of Doritos or ten thousand rubber duckies, or even a couple of hundred Adidas trainers, that with a steel container.(G)
That thought occurred to me about the time I posted and I have to agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"But what if containers on container ships were fitted with timed scuttling charges"
Oh yeah, I can just see DHS and their overseas equals doing the ruptured duck, when they find out someone has placed a half million explosive charges uniformly scattered around every port in the world.
What is it the Republicans from Texas say? "That dog ain't gonna hunt."


But you could apply for federal grant money to develop a combination optical and magnetometer scanner to mount on the foredeck (heck, make the boat a robot and DARPA will give you funding too) which fires a fifty megawatt laser at submerged containers, and clears them from the seas.


Troll a seive net and collect a mess of those plastic micro-particles at the same time, and I'll bet you'd have a nice fleet business going!
Oh yeah. Grant money. I could upgrade on your tax dollars. Where do I sign up?
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Old 03-04-2015, 21:59   #107
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
True,Skip, but which would you rather hit: a container full of styrofoam crates with TV sets inside, or an individual floating TV set?

But really, one can't just have serious pyrotechnics like scuttling charges stacked up all over docks and ships decks/holds. The safety issues are kinda dire IMO!

A pity that there is no simple answer...

Jim, using Ann's computer
Seems like you and hellosailor had the same thought. Aside from the safety issues of charges in the containers one big problem is there are so many containers out there. I would guess the number is in the millions. Any solution adopted not only has to be effective and cheap but will also have to survive the marine environment and rough handling. Kind of like gear on a sailboat and we all know how much maintenance that stuff requires.
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Old 03-04-2015, 22:47   #108
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

You All can consider your selves lucky not having to worry about hitting much in the way of objects in the water. Up here in the Pacific NW we have the full gamute of obstacles, from Containers, Logs 6 ft in Dia., 40ft long Propane tanks, and boats, all of which can ruin your day, in a hurray. Then there are the drift nets and crabbing rigs that are every where. And I almost forgot the Ferrys, Tankers, and those Container Ships, that are heading in and out of Puget Sound and the Salish Sea, enroute to Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia, Victoria BC, and Vancouver BC, lots of fun... If you would like some fun come on up here...
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:44   #109
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Nobody has posted any relevant information on this incident. I am interested in this discussion because I know the couple, They were our dock neighbors a few years ago. I have followed other reports on this forum about USCG rescues. In these reports, the common theme is that the Coast Guard takes the people in distress aboard their ship and does not attempt to repair or tow or scuttle the distressed vessel at all. In this incident the Coast Guard first attempted to repair, then tow,and then scuttled this couples boat. I would like to know why. I would like to know what to expect should I ever call for assistance. This incident does not appear on their search and rescue news pageSearch and Rescue | Coast Guard News
Does anybody here have any official info on the Coast Guard's current assistance policy?
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:58   #110
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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A lot of Coasties are plain old fashioned nice guys, who joined in order to help people. Every assist will be governed by formal protocol from above, but also by simple considerations like What are my time contraints? Where am I due to be? What's the wx, can I do this safely, keep all parties safe, return to port & be on station before a coming need? Do I have the resources? Can this be turned over to a commercial salvor, as required?
They do have a great deal of discretion in terms of what they can do--IF they can justify it and it doesn't violate express policies. Bear in mind this rescue was in a constrained area (for traffic from the Panama Canal) and in the right weather, that boat might have drifted into Cuban waters, or worse, been aided by the Cuban CG, something that might be seen as politically embarrassing right now.


It is easy enough to ask the USCG directly, they do have a public information office. Whether that captain has filed a complete report & logs yet, whether any information has been questioned or even passed around yet...in the bigger scheme of things, that's possibly a zero priority for right now.

If Sunshine was a documented vessel, you might also try contacting the owner of record to ask what happened.


The few facts that dribble out in "the press" about any marine incident? Seem to generally take six months to two years to do so.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:12   #111
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
Nobody has posted any relevant information on this incident. I am interested in this discussion because I know the couple, They were our dock neighbors a few years ago. I have followed other reports on this forum about USCG rescues. In these reports, the common theme is that the Coast Guard takes the people in distress aboard their ship and does not attempt to repair or tow or scuttle the distressed vessel at all. In this incident the Coast Guard first attempted to repair, then tow,and then scuttled this couples boat. I would like to know why. I would like to know what to expect should I ever call for assistance. This incident does not appear on their search and rescue news pageSearch and Rescue | Coast Guard News
Does anybody here have any official info on the Coast Guard's current assistance policy?
Hi.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice with the sole intent to help you and to add to the friendly discussion of the case.

_____________

The site you linked above ("Coastguardnews.com") is NOT an official USCG site. It is a private site that accepts advertising and simply pulls together stories (they see fit to publish) from many sources.

My suggestion: DO NOT think it is an official USCG site and DO NOT blame the USCG for the content or lack of content.

Here is a quote from that site's About page:
"Coast Guard News is your one stop source for the latest news concerning current and recent operations of the US Coast Guard.

The material on this site is drawn from many sources, but the primary source is official press releases filed by the dozens of men and women in US Coast Guard Public Affairs offices throughout the country.

This site is not endorsed by, affiliated with, or in any way associated with the U.S. Coast Guard or the Department of Homeland Security."
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If you want the official reasoning behind the USCG actions, I suggest you get in touch with the USCG.

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Regarding the USCG policy on assisting a vessel in distress: perhaps other forum members here who are USCG vets will know something of the official policy based on their service in the USCG.

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As to the incident of the yacht Sunshine sinking?

I will be the first to say I am not an expert in this and not a USCG spokesman. So what follows is just from the standpoint of an interested sailor/citizen.

As I see it, each case involving a vessel in distress has to be treated as a unique case because the circumstances are always different to some degree. What is done in one circumstance or case may be similar but different in another case. And, there is always the variable of a "command decision" as the commander at the time and place has to make decisions on what is best to do at that time, with the resources at hand, and within his authority or to fulfill his mission etc.

Also, as none of us were there, we don't know ALL of the facts.

And, what appears to happen in many cases of rescues is the vessel is either sinking or expected to sink without any need to scuttle it or damage it further (shoot it).

And, some (but not all) sailors will do something to scuttle their own boats (by choice) such as opening a seacock or taking off a hose or simply stop the pumps. So, some rescue accounts on the net may not mention this.

And, if the boat was in a busy sea lane or considered a possible hazard to others, I see no reason to expect the USCG to try to save it if they determined it was beyond their ability to do so at that time (possibly due to other factors). If the USCG Cutter was needed somewhere else, I could understand the commander's decision to sink the now derelict hazard, using any means he felt appropriate or useful (including with a gun of some kind).
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Old 10-05-2015, 21:08   #112
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Background on Sunshine

Five years ago they started to crossfrom Key West/Dry Tortuga's to Isla Mujeres, Mx based on weather forecast.
They made it to NW coast of Cuba with boat problems & sea sick captain.
After stop things got better.
Departed Cuba but stopped again at Cabo San Antonio with engine problems
Required Cuban mechanic to bleed lines and start engine.
After repair they made it to Isla.
Observed in Isla at marina with banged up boat while captain read books, but no repairs done by same (he is a former attorney).
Later, day hopped (one overnight at most) down MX and BZ coast to Rio Dulce.
Stayed in Rio Dulce for year then left for the Bay Islands of Honduras. After one day en-route front trapeze ripped through and dingy fell under hull. More wx & mechanical problems delayed arrival to nightfall at Isla de Utila.
Last year Sunshine made their way to Isla Mujeres for return to Florida. Failure of family to assist as crew and lack of other volunteers resulted in Sunshine spending the last year and a half docked in Isla. Fuel in boat has been sitting for year and a half. One engine was removed and rebuilt by local Mx mechanic. It was re-installed a week prior to departure on March 12,2015. There was no away-from-the-dock test and it sounded like a rattling sewing machine.
The crew of Sunshine planned to depart with another boat heading for Cuba so as to avoid a multi overnight passage. The buddy boat departed around 7:30 A.M. and they called Sunshine to see if they had left yet at 8:50 A.M. Sunshine replied that they would not be departing the dock until sometime after 9:30 A.M. At about 10:30 A.M. Sunshine was heard calling the buddy boat. The buddy boat did not reply as it was out of radio range. Wind was about 12 kts out of the NE and waves were about 3-5 ft out of the E. Both wind and waves were essentially on the nose for Sunshine which had previously declared that they were going to overnight to Cuba, go up the coast, inside the reef, then cross over to Key West. With conditions as they were, it appears Sunshine was going much slower than planned. They didn't have their sails up because they were heading NE toward Cabo San Antonio directly into the wind. They apparently enjoyed the Yucatan current not realizing it was driving them well north of their rhumb line. The Sunshine poster indicated they were about 40 miles from Cuba. If they were due west of Cuba they would have been in a 2 kts northerly current. If they were northwest of Cuba there is still a northerly current. However if they were trying to reach Cuba they would have been into a 4-6 ft head sea. There is a westerly counter current on the northwest Cuban coast but it only extends about twenty miles offshore.
One other interesting point. Sunshine posted on Facebook, about four months prior, asking about the experience of other cruiser switching to a motor home. Recently Sunshine posted that they were touring in the Smoky Mountains. I have no idea if they were in a tent or a motor home! Insurance is a wonderful thing, especially if it is a total loss....no deductible and no pro-rating.
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