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Old 02-04-2015, 15:43   #76
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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It's also not on their blog.
Someone that just lost their boat probably has more on their mind that updating a blog.
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:51   #77
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Yes, water tight bulkheads, fore and aft. It probably was NOT taking water in the conventional sense. No water when the tow started (?).

Yup, go to windward fine... depending on the sailors and the sails.

I'm guessing the proximity to Cuba accounts for the CG interest. Didn't want an incident. Though in this day, I can't imaging that stopping for repairs only would be a big deal.

The poster that said "they had somewhere they need to be" nailed it. They were also tired. I'd have been embarrassed to call if there was a down-wind destination, even if it was Cuba (I would have called the CG to tell them that is where I was going, in case there were special procedures). And why did it take so long to hoist sails? I would have had them up within minutes of realizing the engine had stopped, and I would have been picking a course to safety at that moment. start the boat on a safe course, and ONLY THEN take a closer look at the engines. I've had engine failures before, and the FIRST thing is to stabilize the situation (sail or anchor), since the engine may not get fixed.

Never had a tow, but if there were any real waves running and before I left the boat she would be sealed up. Obviously.

A shame.
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:56   #78
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

The original post was represented as a message directly from the owner. Assuming that is the case (and there's no reason to think otherwise) then you would think that the owner would likely report their role in the most positive light or at least try to be completely neutral.

Based on what was said the most obvious conclusion is the boat and captain could have been better prepared for the voyage.

Yes this is armchair quarterbacking but based on first hand information I don't think unreasonable.
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Old 02-04-2015, 16:42   #79
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Old Chief- What I'd do is get some solid and clear information.


The boat was slightly N/NW of the halfway point between Cancun and Cuba, and that would confirm it would be a hazard to navigation coming North from the Panama Canal. Not a good place to leave it adrift.


But. Unless wind and current were both pushing it due south, I don't see any urgency explaining why the crew couldn't have been left aboard with a couple of weeks of food and water and told "see if you can sail it or get a more competent salvor out here."


Boat wasn't sinking, until the owner left it to someone else, and someone else in turn left it to someone else again, and no one could be bothered to check on it?


All we KNOW is that it was without power in a bad place but with no pressing reasons to abandon it. No pressing reasons to conduct an immediate tow without proper towing capabilities.


And certainly no reason to waste an hour pumping a thousand rounds of fifty into it.


What it needs now, are some logs and a possible formal inquiry as to events and actions.


A questionable source puts the cost of operating a cutter at $1550 per hour, so in the greater scheme of things I can't see any purpose to screwing around for an hour and spending that much again in ammunition.


Surely a 270' cutter can drop a dewatering hose and get any spillage out of a wee sailboat if they don't have a drum pump aboard.


Just sounds like we're only getting the abridged version of what the Army would politely call a goat****.
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Old 02-04-2015, 17:19   #80
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Old Chief- What I'd do is get some solid and clear information.


The boat was slightly N/NW of the halfway point between Cancun and Cuba, and that would confirm it would be a hazard to navigation coming North from the Panama Canal. Not a good place to leave it adrift.


But. Unless wind and current were both pushing it due south, I don't see any urgency explaining why the crew couldn't have been left aboard with a couple of weeks of food and water and told "see if you can sail it or get a more competent salvor out here."


Boat wasn't sinking, until the owner left it to someone else, and someone else in turn left it to someone else again, and no one could be bothered to check on it?


All we KNOW is that it was without power in a bad place but with no pressing reasons to abandon it. No pressing reasons to conduct an immediate tow without proper towing capabilities.


And certainly no reason to waste an hour pumping a thousand rounds of fifty into it.


What it needs now, are some logs and a possible formal inquiry as to events and actions.


A questionable source puts the cost of operating a cutter at $1550 per hour, so in the greater scheme of things I can't see any purpose to screwing around for an hour and spending that much again in ammunition.


Surely a 270' cutter can drop a dewatering hose and get any spillage out of a wee sailboat if they don't have a drum pump aboard.


Just sounds like we're only getting the abridged version of what the Army would politely call a goat****.

We also know it had steering problems which makes it a completely different ball game.
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Old 02-04-2015, 17:31   #81
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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We also know it had steering problems which makes it a completely different ball game.
Just to clarify, the PDQ36 has two rudders and the quadrants are connected by an aluminum bar which is external to the boat. If the bar is broken, or if steering fails in some other way, an emergency tiller can be be inserted at the top of either rudder shaft. That way, the boat can be steered with one rudder if the bar has failed (as long as the other rudder isn't locked - sending you in circles). In addition, the LRC model has rudder skegs as protection from grounding or floating debris. This boat should be able to be steered using the emergency tiller for an indefinite period, although it would be taxing.
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Old 02-04-2015, 17:32   #82
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Those that know about the PDQ - can a problem cross bar be easily unhooked and the boat steered by the autopilot on one rudder, or by an emergency tiller on it?

It sounds like they watched the hull progressively fill with water over a significant amount of time. I don't understand why the tow wasn't stopped and the hull pumped out before it got to the point of flipping.

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Old 02-04-2015, 17:43   #83
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

There are a lot of CG vessels out there that operate without carrying spares of any kind, and there are a number that carry spares that will allow them to stay at sea until the food and fuel run out, and if they do need parts for a breakdown they can always get the parts needed delivered to them, wherever they are.


This was not the problem here, as no one knew what the actual problem was. Though it was a long term problem, based on poor maintenance and or fuel contamination or both, along with poor seamanship by not making sure all hatches were secure before leaving the boat.


You can not rely on some one who does not know a boat, to do your job...
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Old 02-04-2015, 17:45   #84
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

And this is exactly why the cg hates towing you. The second they touch your boat it becomes there problem and fault.

The owner needs to suck it up be glad he is alive and that the efforts were even made to save his totally awesome and wonderful boat that I am terrified to say anything negative about due to the lynch mob of pdq owners that showed up here to bash the cg.
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Old 02-04-2015, 18:25   #85
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by chicagocat View Post
Just to clarify, the PDQ36 has two rudders and the quadrants are connected by an aluminum bar which is external to the boat. If the bar is broken, or if steering fails in some other way, an emergency tiller can be be inserted at the top of either rudder shaft. That way, the boat can be steered with one rudder if the bar has failed (as long as the other rudder isn't locked - sending you in circles). In addition, the LRC model has rudder skegs as protection from grounding or floating debris. This boat should be able to be steered using the emergency tiller for an indefinite period, although it would be taxing.

Yes the tiller bar attaches to both rudders at a rudder arm. The attachment is made with a SS bolt passing through the aluminum arm so corrosion may be a problem. There is an access above each rudder post to accept the emergency tiller. We have an emergency tiller on our boat, not sure about Sunshine. The wheel steering runs by cable to the starboard rudder quadrant. I have seen hydraulic steering on an earlier PDQ 36 so unsure whether theirs is cable or hydraulic.
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Old 02-04-2015, 18:26   #86
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Those that know about the PDQ - can a problem cross bar be easily unhooked and the boat steered by the autopilot on one rudder, or by an emergency tiller on it?

It sounds like they watched the hull progressively fill with water over a significant amount of time. I don't understand why the tow wasn't stopped and the hull pumped out before it got to the point of flipping.

Mark

All the PDQ 36's I've seen have wheel driven autopilots
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Old 02-04-2015, 18:27   #87
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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And this is exactly why the cg hates towing you. The second they touch your boat it becomes there problem and fault.

The owner needs to suck it up be glad he is alive and that the efforts were even made to save his totally awesome and wonderful boat that I am terrified to say anything negative about due to the lynch mob of pdq owners that showed up here to bash the cg.

I haven't seen one PDQ owner bash the CG on this thread, I know I haven't. So please put up or shut up.
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Old 02-04-2015, 19:48   #88
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

I will say one more thing and am out of here. I have been around boats for a long time and made my share of rescues from them, and I have yet to see one boat, traditional or multi-hull that didn't do what it was suppose to do.... It has always the owner operator that didn't know what the limits were and/or didn't perform the proper maintenance and/or repairs when they were due. In this case the Sunshine was a neglected boat, as the proper maintenance to the engines and fuel system was not accomplished when it was obviously needed... And those that imply the CG should not have done what they had to do, are the very ones that will likely be calling the CG to help them sometime in the future....


Good Luck to ALL, and remember if you take care of your boat, it will take care of you... OR Just like in the Army, the word is If You Take Care of Your Weapon IT will Take Care of YOU....
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Old 02-04-2015, 19:55   #89
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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, along with poor seamanship by not making sure all hatches were secure before leaving the boat.


You can not rely on some one who does not know a boat, to do your job...

Before leaving the boat, how about before leaving the dock! Two days at sea, conditions too bad to sail or work on engines and foredeck hatches open...how does that work...??
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Old 02-04-2015, 19:59   #90
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Before leaving the boat, how about before leaving the dock! Two days at sea, conditions too bad to sail or work on engines and foredeck hatches open...how does that work...??

If you read the original post they were sailing at 3 kts. then the wind died.
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