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Old 02-04-2015, 13:27   #61
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by Olde Chief View Post
SMJ, I am willing to bet that 90% or more of those rounds hit the Sunshine hit her above the water line, as for scuttling charges those are not normally used except in movies....

Whether she was hit by 100 or 1000 rounds under the water, she still wasn't sinking.
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:29   #62
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Wow. i just googled USCG and S/V sunshine
This(excerpt from txt msg) is what I found:


F-SITOR-DTG: 03/13/2015 10:33:00


UNCLAS DTG 140233Z MAR 15
SUBJ/HYDROLANT 613/15
MSGID/GENADMIN/NGA NAVSAFETY WASHINGTON DC//
RMKS/
HYDROLANT 613/15(27,28).
GULF OF MEXICO.
DNC 15.
36 FOOT S/V SUNSHINE, TWO PERSONS ON BOARD,
DISABLED AND ADRIFT IN 22-09.44N 086-19.47W.
VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP
LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE. REPORTS TO U.S.
COAST GUARD MIAMI, PHONE: 305 415 6800,
E-MAIL: RCCMIAMI@USCG.MIL.//
#2204
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:52   #63
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
A friend I believe, talked to the owners..
You believe?

So, the coast guard can't fix a diesel, sail a boat, manage a tow, stand a watch, get a pump onto a flooded boat, nor after all that bungling, manage to sink it.

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Old 02-04-2015, 13:56   #64
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by Olde Chief View Post
SMJ, I am willing to bet that 90% or more of those rounds hit the Sunshine hit her above the water line, as for scuttling charges those are not normally used except in movies....
Scuttling charges would be a technical issue, not depending on what movies you watch.

Patent US3838643 - Explosive device for scuttling ships - Google Patents
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:24   #65
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by Svan View Post
You believe?

So, the coast guard can't fix a diesel, sail a boat, manage a tow, stand a watch, get a pump onto a flooded boat, nor after all that bungling, manage to sink it.


You're right, it wasn't my friend but a fellow PDQ owner that I met. But the story still holds true.
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:32   #66
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by Svan View Post
Phil (the Phil in the story) posted this on the pdqforum on april 1.

'nuff said
Doubtful this was an April Fool's joke. Posted on FB days before, and there had been at least 60 comments by other FB members expressing their sorrow and support.


BTW, regarding hatches....do many of you sail offshore without the hatches dogged down? We never do. Just a comment, and not meant as an attack on the people involved here.

Ralph
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:37   #67
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Don't PDQ36's use gasoline outboards?

Mark


There are the older classic 36 that had outboards. We had hull number 2 original PDQ34 before they lengthened the stern. There were ten or twelve made like that and the factory made add on sterns when the 36 started being made. Then is when the diesels started going in the true 36's, I think
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:39   #68
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Well, I see it a bit differently, perhaps influenced by some other info which has not been revealed....yet.

I see it as a manifestly unfit-for-offshore travel vessel, manned by a short-handed crew whose captain didn't really like "big waves", who was susceptible to seasickness, who ran into (predictable) troubles, who called for assistance and was aided by a USCG vessel which steamed 300nm to help them, who then tried for 3 hours to get the engines going (engines which had experienced difficulty over a sustained period and resulted in at least one other tow into port), who was unable to fix the steering bar problem, and whose captain left the nearly becalmed vessel without securing the hatches before the USCG took the boat in tow, and who now reportedly wants to blame the Coast Guard.

Jeez....just one more of an increasing number of cases where -- for many reasons -- the boat and crew were unsuited to be at sea for a long offshore voyage.

I'm glad they're OK, sorry for the loss of their boat, and hope they'll learn something from this tragedy and do the honorable thing -- suck it up and not look for scapegoats.

Bill
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:41   #69
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by RTB View Post
Doubtful this was an April Fool's joke. Posted on FB days before, and there had been at least 60 comments by other FB members expressing their sorrow and support.

Ralph

Definitely not an April Fools joke. I'm impressed by both the floatation qualities of the PDQ and the actions taken by the CG. It's a shame there wasn't a different outcome.
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:50   #70
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

You still in Floriduh, AJ? Wish we were there. Currently living on the hard doing the bottom job. Gotta get ready for those mean underwater critters that live in Florida waters.

Regarding PDQ's - I suspect there are watertight bulkheads in the hulls? Even opening seacocks may not sink the boat? Just curious, thanks.

Ralph
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Old 02-04-2015, 14:53   #71
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Who says the CG cannot fix a diesel engine, manage a tow, put a pump aboard a boat or sink a boat. The CG can not fix an engine if it has BAD FUEL or broken parts (have you seen the size of a CG diesel engine)? The same goes for fixing steering a catamaran (quite different from a tiller or helm, from what we have on our boats). You cannot tow a catamaran if one hull is or has taken on water, You cannot provide a pump if you do not have one available. Who says the CG could not sink a boat, they could, if the had what they needed.


I suggest that most of the readers here know very little about the Coast Guard and their equipment, and maybe they should get to know more about them. Most CG stations are happy to give visitors and fellow sailors a tour. If anyone has any questions about the CG just contact me here, I would be happy to try to answer them for you.


Just remember that a lot of people are still alive because of the Coast Guard, Including the two from the Sunshine....
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:11   #72
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
I see it as a manifestly unfit-for-offshore travel vessel,

Bill
Why (and please be exact) is this vessel manifestly fit for offshore travel? Have you been on it? Or any of these boats?
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:12   #73
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntlessny View Post
Wow. i just googled USCG and S/V sunshine
This(excerpt from txt msg) is what I found:


F-SITOR-DTG: 03/13/2015 10:33:00


UNCLAS DTG 140233Z MAR 15
SUBJ/HYDROLANT 613/15
MSGID/GENADMIN/NGA NAVSAFETY WASHINGTON DC//
RMKS/
HYDROLANT 613/15(27,28).
GULF OF MEXICO.
DNC 15.
36 FOOT S/V SUNSHINE, TWO PERSONS ON BOARD,
DISABLED AND ADRIFT IN 22-09.44N 086-19.47W.
VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP
LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE. REPORTS TO U.S.
COAST GUARD MIAMI, PHONE: 305 415 6800,
E-MAIL: RCCMIAMI@USCG.MIL.//
#2204
The following link shows that area with recent surface winds. I checked the same area several days ago and the wind pattern was similar.

The coordinates place the boat (at the time of the report above) just a little west of halfway between the westernmost point of Cuba and the Yucatan Peninsula (the area known as the Yucatan Channel).

earth :: an animated map of global wind, weather, and ocean conditions

Looking at the winds, if one was on a disabled and drifting boat (unable to sail under control, motor or most importantly steer), the wind pattern makes it look like the next landfall would be around Brownsville Texas.

That would be a long drift in the Gulf. Roughly 750 miles.

How long do you think that drift of 750 miles would take (how many days)?

Given that, I don't find it unreasonable that the captain of the Sunshine thought asking for a tow to a port would be prudent, given that he could not fix the motor or the steering himself after trying.

What would YOU do IF you were exhausted, seasick, your steering was out, and your two engines were out? Remember, you have your spouse on board with you.

While some may think they would not be disabled by seasickness and exhaustion, or that they could fix anything and jury rig a rudder and rebuild the engine or polish the fuel, the situation the Sunshine faced was a choice of asking for a tow (or rescue), or drifting 750 miles across the Gulf of Mexico, on a disabled boat.

If those were my parents (or children) on that sailboat, I would think notifying the Coast Guard would be prudent, and I would tell my parents or children: "Your life is more important than that boat."

If the USCG Cutter arrived and determined the engines and steering could not be repaired (in an hour or so), I think the right thing to do was to take the crew aboard the cutter.

Think for a moment. If those were YOUR parents or your children on the boat, what would YOU want the Coast Guard to do?

It was nice that the USCG Cutter attempted to tow the boat, but I think ANY tow of a sailboat (or small craft) by a large ship is a big risk (for swamping or damage or loss). Consequently, I don't think it unlikely that the sailboat would founder while towed, nor do I think it unreasonable for the USCG to sink it (by any means) after it foundered.

It also does not bother me that they used a 50 caliber gun to sink the boat (and as gunnery practice).
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:37   #74
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olde Chief View Post
Who says the CG cannot fix a diesel engine, manage a tow, put a pump aboard a boat or sink a boat. The CG can not fix an engine if it has BAD FUEL or broken parts (have you seen the size of a CG diesel engine)? The same goes for fixing steering a catamaran (quite different from a tiller or helm, from what we have on our boats). You cannot tow a catamaran if one hull is or has taken on water, You cannot provide a pump if you do not have one available. Who says the CG could not sink a boat, they could, if the had what they needed.


I suggest that most of the readers here know very little about the Coast Guard and their equipment, and maybe they should get to know more about them. Most CG stations are happy to give visitors and fellow sailors a tour. If anyone has any questions about the CG just contact me here, I would be happy to try to answer them for you.


Just remember that a lot of people are still alive because of the Coast Guard, Including the two from the Sunshine....
Are there a lot of Coast Guard ships out sailing around without a spare gasoline pump on board? I find that difficult to believe.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:38   #75
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by RTB View Post
You still in Floriduh, AJ? Wish we were there. Currently living on the hard doing the bottom job. Gotta get ready for those mean underwater critters that live in Florida waters.

Regarding PDQ's - I suspect there are watertight bulkheads in the hulls? Even opening seacocks may not sink the boat? Just curious, thanks.

Ralph

Hey Ralph, yup still in Floriduh. I feel for you living on the hard. When are yall heading this way?
The PDQ 36 has 6 watertight compartments and I would guess enough flotation to probably stay afloat if those were compromised.
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