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Old 01-04-2015, 17:14   #46
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Did anyone consider this is an April Fools Joke?

A PDQ cat sunk by 50 caliber gunfire from the CG? Hmmmmmmm.
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Old 01-04-2015, 18:49   #47
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Did anyone consider this is an April Fools Joke?



A PDQ cat sunk by 50 caliber gunfire from the CG? Hmmmmmmm.

If it's a joke let me be the first to say it's not funny.
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:24   #48
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

The reason that they sank it was because it was floating nearly submerged like a floating log and wouldn't have been readily seen by even a careful lookout. Probably ate up a decade of 50 caliber round allotment to send the remains to the bottom.

Really interesting that some are blaming the Coast Guard for the eventual sinking of the boat after they 'rescued' the crew and tried to tow the boat to a safe harbor. The owners of the boat should have secured all the hatches before they left the boat. That is especially true as they apparently realized the CG crew members didn't realize the hatches had to be dogged down from the inside. As far as fixing the engines. We have no idea why the engines died though it sounds like a fuel issue. Maybe it was unsolvable without a total conditioning of bad fuel and cleaning out the tanks. Wonder why there was a smell of diesel so bad it made people ill. Could it have been a leak in the fuel system that allowed diesel out and air in. Don't think the CG is supposed to rebuild a boat's fuel system to get them under way.

Anyway, for those who blame the Coasties, hope the CG treat a call for help from them way more casually than they did for this boat.
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:52   #49
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Do not think it was a fuel issue. I remember this boat from the PDQ forum. They tried to make this trip last year and had to return to Isla mujeres with engine problems. Guess they never got them fixed
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:21   #50
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

I just don't get why they didn't turn and sail back down wind to calmer areas...lay ahull, heave to, something,,,

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Old 02-04-2015, 05:57   #51
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Sinking the boat at this stage was necessary, no doubt. But a seamanlike, controlled and professional sinking would have been to open the seacocks and cut the hoses in both hulls. Basta.

The shooting evidently did not sink the boat in a controlled manner and the boat had to be boarded again to sink it. Even more dangerous. Besides, ammunition is very costly and using it for that purpose is a waste of taxpayer's money.

Just because they are wearing a uniform does not make them competent and should induce the captain of a private vessel to automatically surrender all command and judgement to them.

But we don't know really what happened that lead to all of these decisions. Judging from their blog the couple had been sailing at least since 2007 which should have given them plenty of time to learn how to sail out of a situation like this. But my imagination is far stretched to come up with a proper justification for shooting at the boat. I am sure this is not listed in the CG standard operating procedures...
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:05   #52
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

We are all second guessing how and why decisions were made regarding the sinking of the Sunshine. First off the crew of the CG Cutter were ALL professionals, and the owners/operators were amatures. As they knew they had engine and fuel problems from prior problems.


Secondly, the Crew of the Sunshine should have known that once they left there boat it was technically a derelict and it became the responsibility of the CG. If the Sunshine had a working beacon (epirb) the CG might not have sunk the Sunshine. See the NEWS regarding the rescue of a crew from a Canadian Tall Ship off Massachusetts.


Third, The crew of Sunshine should have made sure ALL hatches were secure before they left the boat. sick or not from the diesel fumes. The CG personnel did not know the boat, and cannot be expected to know the layout of ALL boats. Also if the Sunshine had been properly equipped with a epirb and radar reflectors this story might of had a different out come.


Fourth, The Skipper of the CG Cutter CANNOT order the Skipper of another boat or Ship to abandon their vessel. He can suggest it but cannot order it. He would have stood by until the skipper of the distress vessel asked to be removed...


Fifth, the guns that the CG carry onboard their ships are not designed to sink other ships, but rather for there protection only, though they may be used to hasten the sinking of another vessel, once the water got up to the holes made by the bullets being used (at the angle the guns being used could only, for the most part, make holes in the hulls above the water line). What you see on the NEWS is the interdiction of Drug Runners where the CG is shooting at the engines from helos...


I hope this helps everyone reading about Sunshine and the action taken by the CG, which is limited by regulations what they can and cannot do, and helps everyone to re-evaluate what they may have for rescue equipment on their boats.


Hope everyone has a good summer sailing and stays safe.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:45   #53
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Phil (the Phil in the story) posted this on the pdqforum on april 1.

'nuff said
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:02   #54
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Gee, at the risk of discussing gun facts....


A USCG cutter might be equipped with multiple 50 caliber machine guns. Each could be, at a minimum, an older Browning single-barrel 50 caliber gun. Now let's suppose the cutter had two 50 caliber single-barrel machine guns on board, capable of aiming and firing at the towed boat. And the captain decided to use the opportunity as target practice, which is ALWAYS needed for those gunners.


Each of those Brownings fires 550 rounds PER MINUTE. meaning that two Brownings, each firing for one short minute, puts 1000 rounds into that target boat.


And that's all. Training for one minute each for two gunners, or one HALF minute each for four gunners.


Anybody ever get thirty seconds of training on any machine and get told you're training for the year is done now?


A thousand rounds probably also cost over $1000, even at government rates (purchase, logistics, distribution, paperwork). But we've already seen reasons to question the group wisdom of the officers in this situation. A one-minute long target practice session wouldn't be so unreasonable.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:25   #55
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

"nuff said"? Really? How does Phil posting on April 1 relate to the OP of this thread, who read it three days before that on Women Who Sail FB group? "March Fool"?
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:55   #56
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

HelloSailor, what would you have done regarding the Sunshine, in this situation? would like to know....
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:09   #57
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

It's also not on their blog.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:40   #58
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

A friend I believe, talked to the owners. They couldn't sail because the rudders were jammed, something to do with the tiller bar. The CG also tried to fix the steering problem but were unable. It took over 1000 rounds from the 50 caliber machine gun and still didn't sink.
They finally had to go at it with fire axes. Pretty impressive of the boat as well as the CG.
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:00   #59
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Gee, at the risk of discussing gun facts....


A USCG cutter might be equipped with multiple 50 caliber machine guns. Each could be, at a minimum, an older Browning single-barrel 50 caliber gun. Now let's suppose the cutter had two 50 caliber single-barrel machine guns on board, capable of aiming and firing at the towed boat. And the captain decided to use the opportunity as target practice, which is ALWAYS needed for those gunners.


Each of those Brownings fires 550 rounds PER MINUTE. meaning that two Brownings, each firing for one short minute, puts 1000 rounds into that target boat.


And that's all. Training for one minute each for two gunners, or one HALF minute each for four gunners.


Anybody ever get thirty seconds of training on any machine and get told you're training for the year is done now?


A thousand rounds probably also cost over $1000, even at government rates (purchase, logistics, distribution, paperwork). But we've already seen reasons to question the group wisdom of the officers in this situation. A one-minute long target practice session wouldn't be so unreasonable.
Scuttling charges might be better. You can't see everything downrange.
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:21   #60
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Re: The Sinking of Sunshine

SMJ, I am willing to bet that 90% or more of those rounds hit the Sunshine hit her above the water line, as for scuttling charges those are not normally used except in movies....
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