Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-07-2009, 05:07   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
Images: 37
The Proper 'Offshore Psychology?'

The thread on the fate of the S/V Gringo, as well as several similar post mortems of disaster have made me think a lot about what I will call the "offshore psychology" thing.

We routinely field newbie questions about circumnavigation dreams, many that start out something like this: "I need to get a boat that I can single-hand on a trip around the world, preferably for under $20K. I am planning to leave by the end of the year. I am new to all this, so need your advice on which boat to get."

Inevitably, the "advice" breaks down into "sober curmudgeons/naysayers vs. follow your dreams" debate that makes the former out to be a bunch of dream killers and the latter out to be reckless facilitators.

Yes, I realize that the vast majority of these wouldbes will never go much beyond posting the dream here. But others, we have seen, get to the point of heading offshore. In many cases they are utterly ill-prepared both materially and psychologically. Some get lucky, pick up the skills along the way and manage just fine, thus encouraging the "go for your dreams" crowd. Others, are not so lucky, giving ammunition to the naysayers.

Thoughts?
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: https://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 05:28   #2
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 2,269
Images: 2
I think that there are certain types of personality that are less desirable when going offshore and others that are better. The type of person who, when confronted with a difficult situation, either freezes up and does nothing or who goes into "doom and gloom" mode is less likely to enjoy going offshore than the mindset of "we'll fix something up". I'll call it the survivor mindset for lack of a better term. A person doesn't need to be a consummate mechanical McGyver but imagination is necessary and is, in my opinion, more powerful than determination.
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 05:38   #3
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
......... In many cases they are utterly ill-prepared both materially and psychologically. Some get lucky, pick up the skills along the way and manage just fine, thus encouraging the "go for your dreams" crowd. Others, are not so lucky, giving ammunition to the naysayers.

Thoughts?
Part of it is LUCK but a large part is "how well one deals with fear".

Regardless of macho statements, most of the "utterly ill-prepared" off-shore sailors will experience large doses of fear, even if not recognized as such.

How they re-act to their fears will largely determine the outcome of the voyage - IMO.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 05:40   #4
Registered User
 
pjop's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Boat: Endeavour 37
Posts: 111
Great thread Sneuman. I was once a newbie to the idea of cruising and a part of my education started on this site. While I never posted the question, I read many of those posted by other newbies and you're right on point as to the general question and responses. It appeared to me that reasonable minds can disagree and that both opinions maintained valid positions. The answer to me was to take advice from both sets. Since I was already familiar with sailing, I am a bit biased toward the naysayers crowd and am methodically marching toward my shove off date with my primary concern directed toward the safety of both crew and vessel. However, I have weighted those concerns to a degree with knoweldge that no one is ever completely prepared to shove off and if I'm not careful (or maybe too careful) the sandman will take me instead of that rogue wave. I would much rather it be the latter than the former.
pjop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:20   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
Images: 37
Having been in a survival storm, one of the things that concerns me is an attitude for a certain group of cruisers that you don't necessarily need much mechanical and problem solving skill. These (presumably more financially endowed) people believe you can just get someone else to fix it (whatever it is).

I, for one, completely disagree with this ethos. When there is no land in sight, you are either self-sufficient or insufficient.

I think in some ways, modern communications technology and EPIRBs have contributed to this thinking. Yes, EPIRBs are wonderful life savers, but they can also be just a little too handy.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: https://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:34   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,138
Images: 241
Sensation-seeking cruisers are not necessarily risk-takers.

There’s a relationship of Risk to Skill:

Who gets hurt? – Usually, the untrained and those with minimal skills.
Risk is relative to skill. The skilled know their limits and observe them.
The unskilled unknowingly take risks because of their inferior skills.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:41   #7
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
........ people believe you can just get someone else to fix it (whatever it is).

I, for one, completely disagree with this ethos. When there is no land in sight, you are either self-sufficient or insufficient.

I think in some ways, modern communications technology and EPIRBs have contributed to this thinking. Yes, EPIRBs are wonderful life savers, but they can also be just a little too handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
......Who gets hurt? – Usually, the untrained and those with minimal skills.
Risk is relative to skill. The skilled know their limits and observe them.
The unskilled unknowingly take risks because of their inferior skills.
Hear Hear - I concur (totally).
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:52   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
Images: 37
One other thing occurs to me ...

GPS has significantly lowered the threshold for self-sufficiency at sea.

In "the good 'ole days" the need to master celestial navigation (along with the knowledge, as mentioned above, that rescue was not as simple as pulling a cord) was a significant barrier that probably kept many from setting off.

Now, things just seem so much simpler and surely encourage those with less commitment to "go for it."

I'd be the first to admit that I have not mastered sight-taking and computation myself. It's on my list, though.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: https://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 07:40   #9
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,507
Images: 123
I am of the mind set to go now. That doesn't mean go unprepared. That means get things in order, hone your skills in all weather, and go as soon as you are ready. Not as soon as you can, but be ready!

I took lessons, and then 3 months later bought Frolic, and sailed S.F. Bay constantly. In the begining there were days I just didn't go. I did not have the skill, and I had an ancient furler that would hang up.

It was said to me that Frolic was the most used boat in a 500 slip marina, and I believe it. There were many days I beat out from the east bay to the Golden Gate in 20 - 25 knots +. Reefing along the way as wind built. Changing hank on sails as the wind built. Then the whole way back practicing gybing right up to our break wall for the marina.

If you can't improvise along the way. You are going to run into trouble eventually. A sailboat lives in a tough enviroment once it starts to cruise. The boat needs to be prepared, and the master of the vessel needs to be prepared.

I call the EPIRB the EASY BUTTON. It makes it too damned easy to get saved. We read it all the time that the vessel is found months later floating, and mostly intact. What's that say about the person, or persons that left it behind? You need some skills of sailing, fixing, and managing the boat. Throw in a wee bit of intestinal fortitude, and you should be okay........i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
https://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 07:49   #10
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
I would also like to know why so many start out with the "Sail around the World" dream? I've been sailing for 35 years, and I'm still not that interested in going all the way around. I'm really happy in the islands... most any of them!
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 07:56   #11
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,507
Images: 123
I think it's those slick magazine covers......lol......i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
https://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 07:59   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,564
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
I think it's those slick magazine covers......lol......i2f

Well really, that is all sailing is... anyone who thinks otherwise is just missing the point.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 09:35   #13
Registered User
 
TAREUA's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ferndale, Wa
Boat: ISLANDER 41 DAWN TREADER
Posts: 153
To me the difference in wanting to cross oceans vs. just enjoying sailing where you're at it is the same as the difference between mountain climbing and rock climbing. Rock climbing always seemed sort of like practice to me, I wanted a summit to complete the experience. I had pals who thought the top of a mountain was worth a look at for the view and not much more.
As far as how someone can know if they are ready for offshore or not at a certain point can't really be known until you go. How you react to things breaking is impossible to predict, but really is key to how much will enjoy the journey.
TAREUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 09:53   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: West Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 195
Professional perspectives

I doubt if I have the perfect psychology for ocean sailing, but I did learn from some professionals along the way: that made up for many of the imperfections.

It is interesting that mixed crews of savage seamen get along well with good officers on steel ships: a lot of the time.
George Wade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 09:57   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,138
Images: 241
Cruising Psychology

Ocean Cruising: A Study of Affirmative Deviance
~ by Jim MacBeth

http://wwwlib.murdoch.edu.au/adt/pub...09/01Front.pdf

More by Jim MacBeth
Utopian Tourists — Cruising is Not Just About Sailing
Ocean Cruising: A sailing subculture

Blue Water Sailors in the Information Age
~ by James D. Dyer

http://honors.csustan.edu/journals/Margins/Dyer.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Psychology of Cruising and Cruisers GordMay Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 7 13-05-2011 14:00
Cruisers' Psychology GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 43 02-02-2009 15:03
The Psychology of Cruising Blogs? Pelagic General Sailing Forum 3 24-04-2008 19:56
Psychology of sailing shellback General Sailing Forum 19 24-03-2008 18:32
proper use of vang capt lar General Sailing Forum 34 14-11-2005 16:32

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.