The Bitter End ??

[tamicatana]

from the dictionary:
"A vertical post, usually one of a pair, set on the deck of a ship and used to secure ropes or cables"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

While I may be a chucklehead, I not altogether sure of what a seat sniffer is and faux-nautical pretentious; wow what a pretentious term. You are right opinions differ, and everyone has opinions.

That was not directed at you at all!! Apologize for any offense!

I specifically don't claim any authority on this point -- I was merely expressing a view which seems logical to me. I am also out of touch with U.S. usage, which might be different.

[tamicatana]

Doing my own rigging has saved time, money, and weight:

blocks (can't see in the pic, but they're to the left of the Brummel)


shackle-free sheets


downhauls


Look Ma, no clutches!

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That was not directed at you at all!! Apologize for any offense!

I specifically don't claim any authority on this point -- I was merely expressing a view which seems logical to me. I am also out of touch with U.S. usage, which might be different.

Now, you wouldn't be feeding me a line, would you?

[Capt Phil]

Gee, and all this time I thought lines were for boats and ropes were for sex! Silly me! Capt Phil

[Hudson Force]

I thought I would bypass posting here after seeing the number of replies. I assumed most would share my technique, but it seems only a few burn the ends of their lines. Then I noticed most that burn the ends use flames and something I'd never consider,- molding the hot ends with wet fingers! I come closest to Ritchard's post 31, using a wrap of tape for a clean cut, but then I melt the end and shape it with a soldering iron. Sure, I get a little Plastic coating on my soldering tool, but a sharp blade cleans it well. I do favor all the suggested eye splices and whippings for specialty function, but all of my general purpose lines must have clean ends without an increased diameter or something incumbering the end. By not adding anything to the end of the line it remains available for the greatest variety of uses.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Now, you wouldn't be feeding me a line, would you?

Give 'em enough rope and......

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Gee, and all this time I thought lines were for boats and ropes were for sex! Silly me! Capt Phil

Sailors have been using lines for sex for years. But I think the tea drinks were more effective.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

By not adding anything to the end of the line it remains available for the greatest variety of uses.

Whippings and Flemish eye splices do not add to the diameter of the line... which is an important part of their design (often melting the line adds diameter) The Flemish eye for example is used to tie a messenger line to when removing a halyard from the mast and must thus be able to pass sheaves, rope clutches etc.

p.s. for many applications I use a hot knife too. I first tape the line very tight so that the diameter decreases, then use the hot knife through the center of the tape. A whipping is added after removing the tape.

I use this hot-knife in the gray 115V version:


ciao!
Nick.

[bobconnie]

The fishermen who taught me to work aboard boats and Ships, my own father for one, would never have used the melted end thing, of course they did not have this type of line to work with LOL but everything was whipped, spliced, wire rigging was whipped and tar was applyed and canvas was rove over that ! no stainess in those days (well it was there but not for a fisherman Money ya know) I still like to use waxed line to whip with, but Im old. Ive always felt more comfortable aboard vessels with properly maintained lines and gear ! Just my 2 cents Bob and Connie

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

.............(often melting the line adds diameter).................... for many applications I use a hot knife too.................

I'm all for simple and quick. I never have an increased diameter with melting the end of a line because I am not using a "hot knife". As I said I am shaping the end with a soldering iron after a cut and bringing it to a smaller melted diameter. Any whipping after this is superfulous work without any function. I like the traditional work, but it's an art form and not always the pragmatic end result. I honor your skill and craft, but I don't see it as a required function.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I'm all for simple and quick. I never have an increased diameter with melting the end of a line because I am not using a "hot knife". As I said I am shaping the end with a soldering iron after a cut and bringing it to a smaller melted diameter. Any whipping after this is superfulous work without any function. I like the traditional work, but it's an art form and not always the pragmatic end result. I honor your skill and craft, but I don't see it as a required function.

Well, let's all be glad the sailmakers and riggers see it differently than you

ciao!
Nick.

[Hudson Force]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;888289]Well, let's all be glad the sailmakers and riggers see it differently than you ........as I said, I would use another technique for a specific function, but I'm speaking of general multi-purpose line and not related to the task of sailmakers or riggers. Share with me what would be the function of dressing the end of a line beyond my simple method for generic use? dockline, small stuff, lashing, ...all that line that we keep for any use.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Gee, and all this time I thought lines were for boats and ropes were for sex! Silly me! Capt Phil

rofl....



"Sailors have been using lines for sex for years. But I think the tea drinks were more effective. "

tea drinks are good for seasickness....and flubugs......

i whip or tape or heat my bitter ends.

humans get better treatment....

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=CaptForce;888320]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, let's all be glad the sailmakers and riggers see it differently than you ........as I said, I would use another technique for a specific function, but I'm speaking of general multi-purpose line and not related to the task of sailmakers or riggers. Share with me what would be the function of dressing the end of a line beyond my simple method for generic use? dockline, small stuff, lashing, ...all that line that we keep for any use.

We must have very different ideas about lines. My docklines are not generic use, they only get used as docklines. When you do not whip your docklines you will find that they will not last as long. Also, the molten ends, if they hold all strands together, are very hard and often big with sharp ridges that I have seen chafe lines and even cut into people's hands. At some point during use, they will fail and the line start unraveling. I can take my camera to the dock and take plenty pictures showing that, we've all seen that. The whipping lasts much longer and usually fails in the end because of UV damage. When you use waxed V-346 thread, it will probably outlast the line itself.

You misread what I wrote about using a hotknife. Using the hotknife, the rope diameter at the cut gets smaller, not bigger. The same can be achieved with a knife and soldering iron but in a very clumsy way because the tool was designed for something else. Some soldering irons come with hotknife attachments though.

When no whipping would be better than a whipping, sailmakers would not put whippings on the lines they sell/use for their products. Their interest is to provide the best product for the best price and to make as much profit as possible at the same time, and in their opinion, the cost of adding whippings are well worth it. I agree with that. It doesn't matter if a line is used to hoist a sail or to moor your boat... the whipping is a better finishing in every case.

Look at the fine piece of work here; it has the dreaded rubber dip finishing that has failed and the guts are coming out. A proper whipping with stitched start and finish would never let this happen and costs a fraction of the costs of this abomination plus a little of the seaman's time.
The knots shown are also special in that they have not been invented yet


ciao!
Nick.